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US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

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Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#221

Post by 3131s »

scalio wrote: post #147
fixermark wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect people assume propaganda is only propaganda if there's a centralized "Ministry of Truth" that (a) has one coherent message, (b) is controlled top-down from a central authority, and (c) has police authority to silence deviations from the playbook by force. As with so much in Western capitalist democracy, America's style of propaganda doesn't fit that authoritarian rubric, but it ends up having similar effect…

House of Cards made me realize something very self-evident: the baddies in "realistic" entertainment media do not reflect the baddies in real life (ditto for the good guys, for that matter). I saw one day that I was conflating real world and HoC politics. Not the actual events, but rather how the different actors got or lost their way. Since I don't know what's going on behind the curtains, I started filling that gap…

I loved this newest season of House of Cards. There is a lot of political commentary in the form of allusions to real-life people and things, and some of them fall into what is considered "conspiracy theory" (e.g. a Bohemian Grove / Cremation of Care reference).

I don't see it as being that close to reality in every way, but the central message of this season is something I've been trying to communicate to people for a long time. In my interpretation, that message was of the government being captured by the war industry and of those captured factions using and even manufacturing terrorism to goad the public into war. Frank Underwood's rise to power is plausible in a political climate like in the US, and the scenario of a corrupted president retaining power by forging a deal with the war industry is also plausible IMO.

I don't pretend to know exactly how it happened, but there is no doubt that something similar is going on in the US. If anyone can offer me a coherent narrative for G.W. Bush's Iraq war with consideration to the 9/11 "28 pages" and related evidence, Obama and Trump's sale of hundreds of billions in weapons to Saudi Arabia, a never-ending state of war without need for congressional approval, the extreme erosion of civil liberties in the Patriot Act, 2012 NDAA, etc., then I am keen to hear it.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#222

Post by 3131s »

soundwave106 wrote: post #142
akvadrako wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was propaganda it must be Democratic propaganda, because it's view of Washington was recognisable as quite close to the Democratic worldview.

As far as I can tell, "West Wing" clearly is aligned with the worldview of Aaron Sorkin, just as "24" seems pretty aligned with the worldview of Joel Surnow. I'm not sure at what point a strong worldview from a creator crosses over to the "propaganda" definition? So many shows over time have had creators with very distinctive, often strong, worldviews and opinions. I can say that about so many shows ranging from "Twi…

I'd say it is coming from a group collective, because Joel Surnow and Aaron Sorkin are nothing without a platform for their shows. It's the conglomerates that own US television networks that chose to fund and broadcast the strong worldview of these writers.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#223

Post by quesera »

bitJericho wrote: post #195
gumby wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what I mean. Pledging allegiance to a flag is dangerous (remember the roman legionaries swore allegiance to their standard, not to the republic, and took the sides of their generals in civil wars). Perhaps to you, steeped in it, it doesn't look like a prayer, but to an outsider it appears little different from a religious invocation. These differences my seem subtle or even trivial, but history has shown…

Have you read the pledge? The flag stands for "the republic". It is a pledge to the United States itself...

I think you're confused. The first objective clause is pretty direct.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#224

Post by oxide »

stuaxo wrote: post #211
tormeh wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now you could say that it's not a big deal either way and I would tend to agree but one could argue that there's a slippery slope when you muddy the line between reality and fiction in the minds of the audience of a mass media. In reality television that line has passed the horizon a while ago.

Where is the line? Some shows like The Only Way Is Essex in the UK was confusing when it first came out, later on we found out it wasn't "reality tv", but a new genre "curated reality".

I much preferred some of those Gordon Ramsay series UK versions. Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares was more akin to a documentary than the US version's on FOX with its awful jumpy editing and constant music in the background. The TV becomes more compelling when game show music isn't blaring and the focus is on how to run a restaurant. Instead of only about family infighting.

The extra 5 or 6 mins helps a lot, nothing feels rushed to a conclusion like US reality TV.

Another good one was Gordon's Great Escape. Documentary style reality tv works so much better IMO.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#225

Post by bitJericho »

quesera wrote: post #223
bitJericho wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the pledge? The flag stands for "the republic". It is a pledge to the United States itself...

I think you're confused. The first objective clause is pretty direct.

"...the flag, and to the republic for which it stands

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#226

Post by rospaya »

treebeard901 wrote: post #45
atemerev wrote: post #2

When I've been telling everyone that James Bond and other similar movies serve the same role as military parades in Soviet-block countries, and heavily scripted by the military, they told me that this is another conspiracy theory and I must be plainly wrong. I wasn't.

James Bond is essentially a franchise built around the psychological need to cope with the collapse of the British empire and all of the associated loss of status that goes with it. In other words, you are correct, Bond movies do not try to hide their nationalism. This is no great revelation.

This goes hand in hand with the US assesment that the UK military is useful to the states only for its nuclear deterrent, intelligence and special forces. Bond being the latter.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#227

Post by rospaya »

visarga wrote: post #12

I am sure "24" was pure propaganda. And "West Wing". I enjoyed them though, at the time. But now they would just revolt me.

West Wing wasn't propaganda, it was a liberal circlejerk, Aaron Sorkin's fantasy that for its first five seasons was an excellent show.

It's politics romanticized by people who aren't politicians.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#228

Post by sctb »

jerrylives wrote: post #91
fwdpropaganda wrote: post #51

Finally! I've been saying for years "The largest propaganda machine in the world is Hollywood." People usually just roll their eyes.

Probably because your take is old as fuck and people know, dude. You're not special.

Could you please stop with the rude, informationless posts?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#229

Post by gumby »

joemi wrote: post #218
gumby wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which brings this full circle: a state of lowgrade permanent fear is created and maintained through jingoistic propaganda in order to control the populace and keep the money flowing with minimal dissent. Since the US doesn't face an existential terrorism threat (compared even to the 70s), the idea of a few have been created -- and are just remote enough that people will be afraid but not ask questions. Jeez reading t…

I guess we differ in our perception of whether the US is at war with anyone or not.

Yep, the us is definitely killing foreigners, and its own people for that matter, but the direct impact on citizens' everyday life is pretty minimal. No war has been declared, and apart from a distortion to the budget and impact on GDP it's essentially invisible.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#230

Post by quesera »

bitJericho wrote: post #225
quesera wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confused. The first objective clause is pretty direct.

"...the flag, and to the republic for which it stands

Right. The flag and the Republic.

Individually and collectively perhaps, but not only the Republic.

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