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Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

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Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#191

Post by WalterBright »

pgeorgi wrote: post #132
omegaworks wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>by the low-wage masses abusing it (and abuse it they did). This feeds directly into the popular narrative that the working poor somehow lack moral fortitude. Do you have evidence to justify this claim?

With a request like this, the best you can hope for it lots of data points (ie anecdata). What I've seen is that in the jobs filled by younger people with little skills on the worker side and near-exploitative conduct on the employer side, was a) a rather shallow loss function ("what if I lose this job? I'm underpaid, it's a dead-end, and I can easily get another job like this", that they often still live in their pa…

I've seen the same rationalizations from salaried well-paid people.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#192

Post by TallGuyShort »

bluGill wrote: post #111
omegaworks wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>by the low-wage masses abusing it (and abuse it they did). This feeds directly into the popular narrative that the working poor somehow lack moral fortitude. Do you have evidence to justify this claim?

If his experience was anything like mine it isn't the working poor. It is the young workers who are not poor. They are still living at home: they do not need to pay for their room, meals eaten at home, health insurance. That is every penny they earn is pure spending money and so despite making minimum wage they are rich with no need to work as many hours as they do. When I was working minimum wage there was also the…

>> That is every penny they earn is pure spending money

I never looked at it as pure spending money - it was mostly saving for an education and a start in my adult life. Might be why I'm one of the few of my generation that doesn't think the entire economy is stacked against them?

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#193

Post by TallGuyShort »

eecc wrote: post #170
bluGill wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his experience was anything like mine it isn't the working poor. It is the young workers who are not poor. They are still living at home: they do not need to pay for their room, meals eaten at home, health insurance. That is every penny they earn is pure spending money and so despite making minimum wage they are rich with no need to work as many hours as they do. When I was working minimum wage there was also the…

So basically you're boiling it down to sex and laying down the guilt at the feet of the healthy young adults whose behavior is all but unexpected. Wouldn't you rather call it the failure of a community - a society - to prepare its new members to the complexities of life? Oh but it's easy to climb up the high horse, brandish the sword of Morals and throw the erring off the tower (incidentally, it's the same ISIS does…

It's nothing to do with morals. Unsafe sex at an early age is just plain a stupid dangerous decision, and there's plenty of people to tell you that. Sure - I feel bad for the people who are now going to be paying for the consequences for the rest of their lives, but it's not some arbitrary religious code. It's not so different from experimenting with drugs in that regard.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#194

Post by pdeuchler »

curun1r wrote: post #173
fasquoika wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By claiming that public figures can be diagnosed by someone who doesn't know them personally, I get the impression you have no idea what is actually involved in a psychological diagnosis. For example, many mental health issues can be the result of physical health issues. In such cases the mental effects are considered part of the physical illness and a separate mental diagnosis is not given. This means that someone's…

You're absolutely right that there's a lot more that goes into a clinical diagnosis of a psychological issue. It's important in that setting because it informs the likely treatment and it's very important to use all the information at your disposal to arrive at the most complete diagnosis. But that doesn't mean that it's not valuable to use incomplete information to speculate on a diagnosis in other settings. Histori…

>> But that doesn't mean that it's not valuable to use incomplete information to speculate on a diagnosis in other settings.

Jesus man, how do you write something like that in the comments for an article about removing mental health stigmas and improving care for those effected?

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#195

Post by luvandp3ace »

I have trouble understanding this. You work in an organization, they have goals, priorities. You have a role and responsibility. Since when was it a company responsibility to take care of your mental well-being? If you need some time off to work on it, shouldn't you just take some time off? Am I missing something?

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#196

Post by w0rd-driven »

lloeki wrote: post #147
maxxxxx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a founder you could also set a positive example and say "I can't get anything done today" and take a break. Fixed working hours are one of the biggest problems in a profession like software engineering. On some days you just can't get anything done. It would be better to just take the day off and come back fresh the next day instead of sitting around and pretending that you are working.

Aaaand... over here we just received formal notice (very informally worded) that mandates us to work for certain durations and be present at specified times, and required to log this by any means we see fit, full log being due to management each month. This kind of attitude just sends the wrong message, devaluates everyone's work by subsuming it to mere tallies, and just outright crosses everyone, obliterating trust…

This entire post echoes my feelings precisely. My circadian rhythm makes getting ready before 10am a problem, much less making it to the office.

I'm currently employed at a place that is relatively completely opposite of requiring a log to be submitted to management. Even so, there is still passive-aggressive chats about being to work on time and the total number of hours per week.

Whenever I make myself feel shitty for having a rough time making it into the office I have to remind myself that this isn't a factory position where working 30 more minutes means I produce 5 more widgets. Every single day is a unique work experience where I may work well beyond the time I should leave or I'm hit with all manner of distraction that makes it rough to accomplish anything other than surfing HN. Having (project) management types that have a similar work experience likely should produce a little more empathy than I feel is conveyed by my peers. I have to assume that being primarily driven by meetings and time-delimited tasks makes it difficult to see my perspective, even if there is some venturing into the nebulous side of things.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#197

Post by ninjakeyboard »

bluGill wrote: post #111
omegaworks wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>by the low-wage masses abusing it (and abuse it they did). This feeds directly into the popular narrative that the working poor somehow lack moral fortitude. Do you have evidence to justify this claim?

If his experience was anything like mine it isn't the working poor. It is the young workers who are not poor. They are still living at home: they do not need to pay for their room, meals eaten at home, health insurance. That is every penny they earn is pure spending money and so despite making minimum wage they are rich with no need to work as many hours as they do. When I was working minimum wage there was also the…

That's a stereotype.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#198

Post by wu-ikkyu »

clfougner wrote: post #165
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's not feasible to haphazardly take biopsies of the brain to test for them It is feasible post mortem but scientists still have no conslusive proof from such examinations. >Conversely, my point still stands that the vast majority of somatic illnesses are diagnosed off subjective symptoms - doctors don't bother doing objective lab tests for a cold or a sprained ankle when the diagnosis is glaringly obvious based of…

You're creating the same false equivalence again by stating that an objective post mortem diagnosis not being practically feasible is the same as an objective cause(s) not existing. In my previous post I linked to multiple pages listing objective causes/mechanisms for two mental illnesses. Diagnosing a mental illness post mortem isn't as simple as finding rhinovirus in a person's nasal cavity, but just because the cu…

>if you don't think mental illnesses subside in molecules and physical structures in the brain, where exactly do you think they come from?

No ones knows for sure because no one can objectively explain the nature of consciousness and the mind in the first place. That is of course not to say that chemicals do not have a strong influence on the mind.

>Oh, and you kind of can diagnose certain mental illnesses post mortem: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181616/

The study has no control group and therefore is not objective. If you read the Methodological Issues section, you'll see that this is essentially a study of the neurochemical effects of antipsychotic drugs.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#199

Post by lovich »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #192
bluGill wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his experience was anything like mine it isn't the working poor. It is the young workers who are not poor. They are still living at home: they do not need to pay for their room, meals eaten at home, health insurance. That is every penny they earn is pure spending money and so despite making minimum wage they are rich with no need to work as many hours as they do. When I was working minimum wage there was also the…

>> That is every penny they earn is pure spending money I never looked at it as pure spending money - it was mostly saving for an education and a start in my adult life. Might be why I'm one of the few of my generation that doesn't think the entire economy is stacked against them?

With the exception of a Nintendo DS, 1 game, and some beer, all of my money from 4 years of jobs went to rent,food, and the tiny little bit left over went to tuition. Anyone going to college in the past 20 years was not paying for it all with a job you could hold while going to classes

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#200

Post by wu-ikkyu »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #134
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because pain is not a disease, it is a subjective experience (or symptom) generated by the nervous system.

Fair point. Counterpoint: in the sense that it is dis-ease (the absence of feeling well and easy going) it may still be a sufficient reason to take a day off work.

Agreed. You shouldnt need a diagnosis to take a day off work
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