Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#51

Post by nevi-me » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:29 PM UTC

diziet wrote: post #21

Any criticism of MongoDB that does not acknowledge WiredTiger and the plethora of positive changes that made MongoDB much, much better in the 3.0, 3.2 and 3.4 releases is criticism that is not fully thought out. It's like complaining getting graphic cards working because of drivers is difficult on Ubuntu, based on experience with linux in 2005.

In the end it doesn't really matter. I feel the article is an educational one, but as it's the chance for us to take our sides of the fence in praising and criticising, we'll still do it anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if half of the commenters haven't used Mongo, or stopped in the 2.0-2.2 days.

A lot of software fails, companies close, while some succeed. Some software that has been hyped up ended up not succeeding, but it doesn't matter. One learns from others' mistakes and keeps growing.

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#52

Post by ergo14 » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

jackweirdy wrote: post #23

owebmaster wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MongoDB is like the PHP of databases. I started programming PHP and currently I bash it every time I can, because it is a terrible language. But it is easy to start and do cool stuff, just like mongodb. Initial traction is more important than initial architecture, I guess.

Right; Facebook, Wikipedia, OpenStreetMap - all serious tech stacks that started and (in the case of the last two) continue to use PHP. Reminds me of: https://slack.engineering/taking-php-seriously-cf7a60065329

Facebook does not "normal" PHP that much, they use host of languages, including Hack, erlang and lots of Python.

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#53

Post by gautamdivgi » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

rubyn00bie wrote: post #43

epmaybe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you always use something that is tried-and-true? MongoDB is relatively new compared to something like postgresql or even mysql.

My guess... SQL is a lot for newcomers to grasp on top of learning the rest of their stack. The appeal of "no schema" is most likely what gets them as it seems easier than SQL. Simple things at first seem daunting like: constraints, joins, and indexes. What they fail to see is that doing these database level things in the application layer becomes the final level hell and you get to live it. People also undervalue th…

Maybe I'm too old now... but SQL is relational algebra translated into some sort of code/language. I did a lot of SQL & relational algebra for my undergrad databases class [which was about 20 years ago now]. Has SQL/DBs been phased out of CS education? Just genuinely curious...

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#54

Post by smileysteve » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:33 PM UTC

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#55

Post by lcfcjs » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:33 PM UTC

Because MongoDB stores documents in JSON form. It's the easiest data structure, easiest to transform in whatever language you're using, it's fast, and its scalable.

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#56

Post by always_good » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:33 PM UTC

gautamdivgi wrote: post #53

rubyn00bie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess... SQL is a lot for newcomers to grasp on top of learning the rest of their stack. The appeal of "no schema" is most likely what gets them as it seems easier than SQL. Simple things at first seem daunting like: constraints, joins, and indexes. What they fail to see is that doing these database level things in the application layer becomes the final level hell and you get to live it. People also undervalue th…

Maybe I'm too old now... but SQL is relational algebra translated into some sort of code/language. I did a lot of SQL & relational algebra for my undergrad databases class [which was about 20 years ago now]. Has SQL/DBs been phased out of CS education? Just genuinely curious...

Doesn't really matter if it has or not given how many developers don't have a formal technical education.

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#57

Post by wmf » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

gautamdivgi wrote: post #53

rubyn00bie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess... SQL is a lot for newcomers to grasp on top of learning the rest of their stack. The appeal of "no schema" is most likely what gets them as it seems easier than SQL. Simple things at first seem daunting like: constraints, joins, and indexes. What they fail to see is that doing these database level things in the application layer becomes the final level hell and you get to live it. People also undervalue th…

Maybe I'm too old now... but SQL is relational algebra translated into some sort of code/language. I did a lot of SQL & relational algebra for my undergrad databases class [which was about 20 years ago now]. Has SQL/DBs been phased out of CS education? Just genuinely curious...

Even 20 years ago the database class was optional for us. I didn't take it because networking was more interesting.

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#58

Post by rosser » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #30

epmaybe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you always use something that is tried-and-true? MongoDB is relatively new compared to something like postgresql or even mysql.

If you actually need certain features like a document store, then Postgres is less mature than MongoDB in that regard.

I'll take "less mature" over "data loss" every day and twice on Sunday.

Whatever else you might say about Postgres, that community cares about the integrity of its users data, over pretty much every other consideration. I don't think the same can be said of Mongo, or any other "NoSQL" anything.

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#59

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

gautamdivgi wrote: post #53

rubyn00bie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess... SQL is a lot for newcomers to grasp on top of learning the rest of their stack. The appeal of "no schema" is most likely what gets them as it seems easier than SQL. Simple things at first seem daunting like: constraints, joins, and indexes. What they fail to see is that doing these database level things in the application layer becomes the final level hell and you get to live it. People also undervalue th…

Maybe I'm too old now... but SQL is relational algebra translated into some sort of code/language. I did a lot of SQL & relational algebra for my undergrad databases class [which was about 20 years ago now]. Has SQL/DBs been phased out of CS education? Just genuinely curious...

[deleted]

Re: Why Did So Many Startups Choose MongoDB?

#60

Post by bluedino » Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 6:38 PM UTC

gautamdivgi wrote: post #53

rubyn00bie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess... SQL is a lot for newcomers to grasp on top of learning the rest of their stack. The appeal of "no schema" is most likely what gets them as it seems easier than SQL. Simple things at first seem daunting like: constraints, joins, and indexes. What they fail to see is that doing these database level things in the application layer becomes the final level hell and you get to live it. People also undervalue th…

Maybe I'm too old now... but SQL is relational algebra translated into some sort of code/language. I did a lot of SQL & relational algebra for my undergrad databases class [which was about 20 years ago now]. Has SQL/DBs been phased out of CS education? Just genuinely curious...

I have an intern who's bout to graduate from a state university and has taken 0 classes on the implementation of compilers or databases. Java, Java. Java.