Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 73 posts

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#51

Post by zzalpha »

gorkonsine wrote: post #48
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Power & Wealth = Freedom. The freedom to act as you want and to prevent others from acting on you. Retirement means you have taken yourself out of the power dynamic and limited your wealth potential.

What exactly is the point of having wealth if you have to put up with the same ol' rat race?

Not being the OP, I can't speak for them, but it's worth noting that most people who are very wealthy but still work sure ain't participating in the same rat race you and I are...

... well, assuming you, like me, aren't fabulously wealthy, anyway. ;)

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#52

Post by AndrewKemendo »

gorkonsine wrote: post #46
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about working in an office? Out of all the HN readership, I'd guess that less than 5% actually does anything that's lasting and useful to society. I'd put it at closer to 1% - and that's the point. You have the causation backward though. If the purported goal is this mundane, hedonistic "retirement," then nobody will ever do anything lasting and useful because you can find an easy niche to fall into…

>Who said anything about working in an office? You said before: "Do that many people want to retire - literally have nothing greater than themselves that requires their input on a daily basis" What else would people be doing if they don't retire, than working? And working means having to deal with all the crap that goes along with working: the open-plan office, meetings, the daily stand-up, office politics, etc. Why…

put up with the annoyances that are unavoidable at work.

If that's all it takes to deter you, then I don't have much else to offer I suppose other than those annoyances are everywhere in life.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#53

Post by sangnoir »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40
ImSkeptical wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of my parents are retired. My father spends his time with his amateur radio, writes magazine articles for niche publications (about amateur radio), works around the house, and sometimes consults with startups from his former field. My mother spends her time reading novels, taking care of grandchildren, visiting family members, and volunteering. Retirement seems like a good deal to me. It's not an inability to do…

I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to spend time that way. At the end of the day it's just indulgence, not actually using your potential to the fullest. Going through life simply for pleasure is the sure fire way to have no lasting impact. If that's what you want to do, then great, but I get annoyed when mediocrity is touted as the greatest good.

> Going through life simply for pleasure is the sure fire way to have no lasting impact.

Not everyone wants that. Some people have had their run "making impact" and want nothing more than to spend time with their loved ones and enjoy their hobbies. I strongly doubt they'll be on their deathbeds thinking "I regret wasting all that time spent with family and doing things I love; I ought to have made a bigger impact at work instead"

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#54

Post by extra88 »

mgummelt wrote: post #18
RealityNow wrote: post #13

> 84 Lumber’s owner, Maggie Hardy Magerko, has something in common with the president. Both inherited businesses from their fathers that have made them fabulously rich. Magerko owns almost all of closely held 84 Lumber, whose stores cater primarily to residential builders and contractors. She is worth $2.1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. > Magerko, 51, is not afraid to flaunt her wealth, sendi…

Most of the Forbes 400 are self-made: https://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2014/10/03/there-...

Yes, but their definition of self-made to include people who "got a head start from wealthy parents and moneyed background," like Rupert Murdoch. I think most people would consider the next level on their scale, "came from a middle- or upper-middle-class background" (e.g. Mark Zuckerberg) to be a more appropriate cut-off.

Not for nothing, but the Forbes 400 list that year included Elizabeth Holmes because of her 50% stake in Theranos, valued at $9 billion; last year it was valued at $800 million. This is not the only example of wealth being more made-up than self-made.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#55

Post by AndrewKemendo »

gorkonsine wrote: post #48
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Power & Wealth = Freedom. The freedom to act as you want and to prevent others from acting on you. Retirement means you have taken yourself out of the power dynamic and limited your wealth potential.

What exactly is the point of having wealth if you have to put up with the same ol' rat race?

Cause it ceases to be a "rat race" when you control the rules of the race.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#56

Post by AndrewKemendo »

sangnoir wrote: post #53
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to spend time that way. At the end of the day it's just indulgence, not actually using your potential to the fullest. Going through life simply for pleasure is the sure fire way to have no lasting impact. If that's what you want to do, then great, but I get annoyed when mediocrity is touted as the greatest good.

> Going through life simply for pleasure is the sure fire way to have no lasting impact. Not everyone wants that. Some people have had their run "making impact" and want nothing more than to spend time with their loved ones and enjoy their hobbies. I strongly doubt they'll be on their deathbeds thinking "I regret wasting all that time spent with family and doing things I love; I ought to have made a bigger impact at…

Not everyone wants that.

Sure, in which case they shouldn't be complaining about not having impactful work.

I strongly doubt they'll be on their deathbeds thinking "I regret wasting all that time spent with family and doing things I love; I ought to have made a bigger impact at work instead"

This is a false narrative and not mutually exclusive with doing important work. Most people die suddenly without a community surrounding them, family or otherwise. I'm dubious about the number of people who have great end of life with a loving family surrounding them.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#57

Post by AndrewKemendo »

cm2012 wrote: post #45
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like the antithesis of ambition. I think you need some self reflection.

I own a consulting firm and make probably top 5% of income for my age bracket. I'm just ambitious to do well to get freedom faster.

Success =/= ambition. Congrats on the success but it's not the same as wanting to conquer some market or have outsized impact on some segment.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#58

Post by mnm1 »

micaksica wrote: post #8

While this is a clickbait article, it's probably worth many high schoolers recognizing that compensation is simply unevenly distributed. There's an increasing realization that going to college does not give you a fast track to FTE status in many industries anymore, and there needs to be a better understanding of the fact that the job market is, well, a market, and salaries will adjust based upon the supply of that ma…

"there needs to be a better understanding of the fact that the job market is, well, a market, and salaries will adjust based upon the supply of that market"

Completely agree, but you're pointing out a chicken and egg problem. You want 17 year olds that are about to graduate from high school to understand market forces, economics, and a whole lot of information that's just simply not being taught in most high schools. In fact, learning such things is the reason many people go to college in the first place. That's simply too much to ask, so we shouldn't be surprised when those students make the wrong choices because we as a society haven't prepared them to make the right ones. Not only are they disadvantaged by being teens (don't have fully developed brains, almost no experience, can't fully control emotions etc.), they are also disadvantaged by not having the proper learning experiences. Seems like what I'm trying to say is that the fix that's needed needs to happen much earlier and we as a society are failing spectacularly at providing it.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#59

Post by ImSkeptical »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40
ImSkeptical wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of my parents are retired. My father spends his time with his amateur radio, writes magazine articles for niche publications (about amateur radio), works around the house, and sometimes consults with startups from his former field. My mother spends her time reading novels, taking care of grandchildren, visiting family members, and volunteering. Retirement seems like a good deal to me. It's not an inability to do…

I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to spend time that way. At the end of the day it's just indulgence, not actually using your potential to the fullest. Going through life simply for pleasure is the sure fire way to have no lasting impact. If that's what you want to do, then great, but I get annoyed when mediocrity is touted as the greatest good.

If life were nothing but an unending challenge, where every action had to challenge the actor to their full potential, I think it would be hard to tolerate.

What's the point of working hard to make the world better, if the only thing you're working hard for is to enable more hard work?

I want my children to work hard, to challenge themselves, and to do something valuable. I also want them to have a good time, and not become worker robots.

There's a place for everything. Retirement is the place for entertaining your own hobbies and interests, even if that means working on your boat and going out on the lake.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#60

Post by AndrewKemendo »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #59
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to spend time that way. At the end of the day it's just indulgence, not actually using your potential to the fullest. Going through life simply for pleasure is the sure fire way to have no lasting impact. If that's what you want to do, then great, but I get annoyed when mediocrity is touted as the greatest good.

If life were nothing but an unending challenge, where every action had to challenge the actor to their full potential, I think it would be hard to tolerate. What's the point of working hard to make the world better, if the only thing you're working hard for is to enable more hard work? I want my children to work hard, to challenge themselves, and to do something valuable. I also want them to have a good time, and not…

If life were nothing but an unending challenge, where every action had to challenge the actor to their full potential, I think it would be hard to tolerate.

Fully agreed:

"But in the end one needs more courage to live than to kill himself" - Camus

Post reply on HN