Live data from Hacker News

A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

bloomberg.com

21–30 of 73 posts

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#21
I have a little story about this kind of thing, where doing something rather simple and low-skill can make an absolute fortune.

One night I was talking to an older friend of a friend, 50+, around a year ago now. We were talking about what we did for a living and what we got paid. We started off with what he did: He's a bricklayer, nothing more, and told me that they get paid per brick they lay. It's something like £4 per brick. What shocked me was an experienced bricklayer like him usually lays enough bricks to make around £400/day.

"That's almost £150,000/year!" I said, trying to not sound too envious or anything (spoiler: I failed). And this doesn't include the one-off jobs they get every weekend from rich foreigners who have extravagant houses built in the UK all the time. All in all it can amount to some very large amounts of zeros in your bank. In a few years he became a millionaire from bricklaying. I have since then talked to a few others who are in that trade and it all (anecdotally) corroborates, approximately (the older you are the more you get picked for "specialist" properties that involve very rich Chinese and Arabians apparently, which can make you ~£1,000 in one weekend).

I asked, as any sane person would, something along the lines of "why isn't everyone and his dog laying bricks?". And the reply was very intriguing. He said essentially that younger people these days (my age) don't want to lay bricks every day now, or don't have the stamina. They want to go on their phones and become world-famous and important and work on new gizmos and apps every day and be looked at by everyone and be payed attention to, etc, etc.

Since then I've not really been able to get my head around it all. It seems like although we talk about automation stealing jobs and everybody will have to be a "techie" to make any sort of decent living, there is definitely a small "elite" minority doing these very old-fashioned jobs that no-one wants or can do anymore. I fear sometimes that we (the younger generation) are slowly going mad with technology, and forgetting about the practical skills. What our own two hands were made to do so to speak.

We never got on to what I do in the end funnily enough.

Anyway, more relevantly, this lumberyard article is just a (slightly Americanised) theme of the above. It's these jobs that were done for a pittance in the past (sometimes even by slaves and prisoners), and now are these trades that sometimes are paying exorbitant salaries, just simply because nobody wants to do it, because no-one can be bothered anymore.

Apologies if this was long and off-topic, but I hope it's left some kind of thought somewhere.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#22

> “You can go to college and learn the theology of the Roman Empire,” says Kleis, who just completed a three-day training program at 84 Lumber’s rural Pennsylvania headquarters. “You learn all this ridiculous nonsense, and when you get out, what are you applying that to? I know how to frame a house.” This is so incredibly vapid and such a poor argument to make in favor of what is otherwise a valid case being made by…

> You learn all this ridiculous nonsense, and when you get out, what are you applying that to?

Who cares about learning history? It's not like those who don't understand it are doomed to repeat it or anything. I'll leave that to the politicians - I have houses to frame. All knowledge should be directly translatable to $$$ or it's a waste of time. /s

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#23

> 84 Lumber’s owner, Maggie Hardy Magerko, has something in common with the president. Both inherited businesses from their fathers that have made them fabulously rich. Magerko owns almost all of closely held 84 Lumber, whose stores cater primarily to residential builders and contractors. She is worth $2.1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. > Magerko, 51, is not afraid to flaunt her wealth, sendi…

The American dream sounds a lot like retiring in one's 50's and owning a boat (to her). I'd say I agree, minus the boat part.

Her's might be different from our American Dream; but if she's setting up her employees to do this, then both sides are #winning.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#24

While this is a clickbait article, it's probably worth many high schoolers recognizing that compensation is simply unevenly distributed. There's an increasing realization that going to college does not give you a fast track to FTE status in many industries anymore, and there needs to be a better understanding of the fact that the job market is, well, a market, and salaries will adjust based upon the supply of that ma…

>> Market dynamics affect one's well being less when you are not shooting simply for compensation, but also job satisfaction. Of course, in our society, highly indebted students are forced to be all about the money and not about the satisfaction. This doesn't lead to successful careers. It leads to burnout, disillusionment, and ennui.

------

Can confirm.

Had to leave university at the onset of the last recession (starting 2007-2008). From then until very recently I was able to make reasonable coping money, but not doing anything I really enjoyed. Sold televisions on commission, worked my way up in a warehouse (film/tv) equipment maintenance and repair to management, drove forklift, freelanced (much harder to make enough money there to cover student loans).

I'm, after nearly ten years, just getting into a pace where I'm making a little more money, and in a field I can leverage to greater effect in the future. It's still not overly satisfying, but I live better than I have.

Ennui and disillusionment are familiar modes... my most common feeling is that of boredom and worry that I'm wasting the best years of my life.

I really don't want that to happen to a new round of minds. It fosters the worst thoughts and feelings in people, especially in those who are or become emotionally vulnerable in any way. And let me say, getting by on $10 groceries a week will help to render one vulnerable real quickly.

edit: Well aware of my first world problems. This is very much in the context of North America.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#25
post #12

> “You can go to college and learn the theology of the Roman Empire,” says Kleis, who just completed a three-day training program at 84 Lumber’s rural Pennsylvania headquarters. “You learn all this ridiculous nonsense, and when you get out, what are you applying that to? I know how to frame a house.” This is so incredibly vapid and such a poor argument to make in favor of what is otherwise a valid case being made by…

As someone who has been surrounded by blue collar workers growing up. (Live on Farm and parents ran construction company). I would tend to agree with the quote. I am sophomore in college and it would appear that friends in high school who skipped out on college and are working now are economically and socially farther ahead in life than most of my classmates in college.

Give it a few years. There are exceptions, but for the most part those friends who never made it to college are going to be in dead-end or precarious jobs for much of their working lives. Some of your college buddies will too, but not nearly as many.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#26

> 84 Lumber’s owner, Maggie Hardy Magerko, has something in common with the president. Both inherited businesses from their fathers that have made them fabulously rich. Magerko owns almost all of closely held 84 Lumber, whose stores cater primarily to residential builders and contractors. She is worth $2.1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. > Magerko, 51, is not afraid to flaunt her wealth, sendi…

“I want people who work for me to retire in their 50s and own their own boats,” she says. God that sounds terrible anyway. Do that many people want to retire - literally have nothing greater than themselves that requires their input on a daily basis - and go sit on a boat? What a waste.

Ever own a boat? Believe me, it's not something you just sit on. Maintaining a boat can be hard, and fulfilling, work for a retiree.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#27
Construction jobs come and go with housing starts. Construction work is high-paying but intermittent.

Other problems: if you work at the only factory in town, the factory has total power over you. You can't quit and get another job. If the factory closes, the town dies. Or goes into zombie mode - no jobs, young people leave, population ages, buildings are abandoned. Too many US towns and small cities are like that. Relocating to a one-factory town is risky. You can be trapped there, especially if you buy a house. 84 Lumber HQ is in a town with 700 people.

Companies in bigger cities tend to have less trouble recruiting. The labor pool is bigger. They can raise wages if they need more workers, which tends to push wages up in urban areas.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#28

> 84 Lumber’s owner, Maggie Hardy Magerko, has something in common with the president. Both inherited businesses from their fathers that have made them fabulously rich. Magerko owns almost all of closely held 84 Lumber, whose stores cater primarily to residential builders and contractors. She is worth $2.1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. > Magerko, 51, is not afraid to flaunt her wealth, sendi…

“I want people who work for me to retire in their 50s and own their own boats,” she says. God that sounds terrible anyway. Do that many people want to retire - literally have nothing greater than themselves that requires their input on a daily basis - and go sit on a boat? What a waste.

>God that sounds terrible anyway. Do that many people want to retire - literally have nothing greater than themselves that requires their input on a daily basis - and go sit on a boat? What a waste.

I do! Not necessarily a boat, though; I'd rather have a nice house in the woods, and spend a lot of time traveling the world. But you seem to think it's a "waste" if someone doesn't want to spend their whole life working. For what? So I can spend most of my waking hours in the sheer hell which is the modern open-plan office? Why TF would I want to do that if I didn't have to? The sooner I don't have to put up with open-plan offices, the better. And what are you contributing to the world while you're working anyway? You really think that working on yet another Javascript framework, or building yet another re-spin of some website is improving the world in a substantive way? Out of all the HN readership, I'd guess that less than 5% actually does anything that's lasting and useful to society.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#29
post #4

> The company pays manager trainees about $40,000 a year, and that’s just the beginning. Those in charge of top-grossing stores can earn $200,000, and in a few cases more than $1 million, including bonuses.

So, don't go to college and become a regional manager of a lumber company. I feel like the only reason they can even joke with a headline like this is technically the entry level positions don't require college degrees. My second guess is the current regional managers making over $1m a year have some type of extended formal education. I could be wrong here, but probably not. A casual search for "84 lumber manager" on…

According to Wikipedia, 84 Lumber has about 250 store. I would hazard a guess that there is one manager and perhaps three assistant managers per store - about 1000 "well paying" jobs. I'd also bet that only a very small portion of their store managers, maybe 10-15%, make $200k+.

Re: A labor market conundrum: Skilled and high-paying blue-collar jobs go unfilled

#30

> “You can go to college and learn the theology of the Roman Empire,” says Kleis, who just completed a three-day training program at 84 Lumber’s rural Pennsylvania headquarters. “You learn all this ridiculous nonsense, and when you get out, what are you applying that to? I know how to frame a house.” This is so incredibly vapid and such a poor argument to make in favor of what is otherwise a valid case being made by…

Your argument appears to be nothing more than namecalling[1], so look who's talking. Anyway it's a quote from a young man going into the building trades, no surprises here. If a Roman theology professor said it, I might be surprised.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_pyramid#Graham.27s_...

Post reply on HN