Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

eubusiness.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 241 posts

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#131

Post by conradk »

briandear wrote: post #30
conradk wrote: post #3

The article says that consumers are discouraged by the cost of repair. A few weeks ago, I repaired an eltronical appliance and was surprised to see that all screws were screwed into plastic. As I unscrewed them to access the inside of the device, the plastic around the screw broke. I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic. That just makes no sense appart from upfront cost. Once the plastic is b…

A law requiring a particular material? Unless it’s health or safety related, no way. The last place I want to see government is regulating how a product must be constructed (unless it’s health or safety critical obviously.) If you want a device without plastic screw holes, pay more money and find one or make one yourself, market it and sell it to other like-minded people. If I have a toaster that breaks, the time it…

For me, the point is that when we throw out a device because it's too expensive to repair, then we diminish our health, because we pollute our environment.

It's hard to measure, like a lot of things, but we should not throw away a microwave because a single transistor broke. We should get someone to repair it. We would collectively save money (instead of paying people with the RSA doing nothing, we should get some of them to learn how to repair stuff) and save the environment.

As for the tone, you might want to be a little more respectful than to simplify other people's thoughts down to "regulations because you're unhappy with screw holes". It does not help you in any way.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#132

Post by ferongr »

jrimbault wrote: post #13
etix wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.

The EU already made mandatory 24 months warranty for all products sold in Europe. I think this has been beneficial not only to European citizens but also to the US where there isn't a minimum warranty by default. Businesses who sell products on both sides of the Atlantic seem to have mirrored the imposed warranty of the EU in the US. I am in favor of extending the minimum warranty. PS: isn't there also some regulatio…

The EU directive might say that but countries codify that into law differently. For example, here in Greece, there is actually no law stating warranties should be two years. It only says that the warranty should be "reasonable depending on the expected lifetime of the product".

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#133

Post by andrewla »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #93
andrewla wrote: post #82

Not to play the free market card too aggressively, but isn't there already a solution to this, called "extended warranties"? Whether provided by the manufacturer or from the retail seller, they provide a way for customers to pay an extra fee in order to extend the product's lifetime. In theory, they even give a way to price out the effective longevity of comparable devices by looking at the prices of the warranties.…

Most countries with strong pro-consumer groups already have minimum 2 year warranties. US-centric pro-corporatist thinking doesn't always apply to the rest of the world. This is my favorite bit of legalease: https://www.apple.com/au/legal/statutory-warranty/ That page has become more friendly over time, but when they first put it up it was amazingly passive aggressive.

I guess what you see as pro-corporatist I see as pro-consumer in this case. Specifically, forcing the consumer to purchase a warranty that they would rather not purchase.

I have no problem, for example, with common-law tenants of implied warranties, and in general, the right of customers to demand redress for obvious failures to meet expectations or deception on the part of companies (be the corporations or otherwise).

I believe, though, that the consumer has a right to set a price on their own preference for risk, in general. In specific cases, especially where there are externalities involved, then it's reasonable to limit it (leaded gasoline, for example, or healthcare, for a more controversial (in the US) one), but I feel the starting point should be to let the consumer decide for themselves.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#134

Post by thiagooffm »

I agree. I live in the EU and bought a washing machine for 450 eur. After 1 year and 2 months a big hole in the Drum appeared and this makes it flood my apartment. LG wants 530 eur to fix it, so obviously not worth it.

My parents had 2 washing machines in their whole life, in contrast...

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#135

Post by thinkfurther »

Why can't we have economies that can be stable without the sky falling, can grow when wanted, and shrink when needed without a cascade of catastrophies? Can't we? It's a honest question, I have no clue.

Because I also think this is a great idea too, but everything else being the same, the general insanity being the same, something else will probably give. On the other hand, if we did have this hypothetical more flexible economic system, making things well instead of hustling and externalizing costs might come as a lasting side effect of that.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#136

Post by driverdan »

thiagooffm wrote: post #134

I agree. I live in the EU and bought a washing machine for 450 eur. After 1 year and 2 months a big hole in the Drum appeared and this makes it flood my apartment. LG wants 530 eur to fix it, so obviously not worth it. My parents had 2 washing machines in their whole life, in contrast...

If this was a concern for you why didn't you buy a more expensive washing machine that has a longer warranty and a reputation for quality?

These things exist but they cost more. Consumers need to be willing to put money where their mouth is.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#137

Post by miracle2k »

thiagooffm wrote: post #134

I agree. I live in the EU and bought a washing machine for 450 eur. After 1 year and 2 months a big hole in the Drum appeared and this makes it flood my apartment. LG wants 530 eur to fix it, so obviously not worth it. My parents had 2 washing machines in their whole life, in contrast...

You should have a two year warranty in the EU: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar...

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#138

Post by blurbleblurble »

Shivetya wrote: post #91

Some of their proposals are just the product of people who have no concept of how technology works. Hell some of it reads like an anti-Apple manifesto being that they integrate battery and LED and such. What would a tablet with a user replaceable battery look like? How many years must they last before they are long lasting? If a battery in a laptop last four years for a nominal charge is that sufficient? With regards…

Apple's marketing material reads like an anti-sustainability manifesto.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#139

Post by driverdan »

> 77 per cent of EU consumers would rather repair their goods than buy new ones

This is most likely a misleading stat. You can repair most things if you're willing to spend the money or time to do it. Many consumer goods cost more to repair than it's worth. No one is going to do that.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#140

Post by bonzini »

azag0 wrote: post #124
cwyers wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Repair is so expensive because it's made to be. It shouldn't take several hours of skilled labour to replace an easily broken component like a touchscreen - it should be snap-in. Regulation can address that by mandating reparability. Which can increase the original cost of the good.

As does any regulation. That does not mean the regulation is bad. I wouldn't regulate this issue with specific rules, just put a cost on waste. Each company would need to deal with the product waste in an environmetally safe way. If they can essentially recycle the replaced products into new ones, then I have no problem with that. But if it ends up as waste, then there should be a price on that. I wonder how much wou…

Isn't that how RoHS already works?
Post reply on HN