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I'm not a Woman in Tech

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Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#301

Post by mistermann »

monocasa wrote: post #292
mistermann wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there widespread stoning of gays? One would think in the year 2017 this might make the news, or at least YouTube or Reddit.

This was in 2004. And define widespread? Like was it sure to happen if you were out? No. If you started a GSA club like he did, more likely. I think the term 'uppity' was thrown around.

> And define widespread?

Well, was this an isolated incident or not?

Better yet, let's use your prior definition:

> If someone refuses me, the white straight male, the chance to buy something, I go somewhere else. That's not the case for some minorities however. If everyone won't provide wedding services for you, or everyone won't let you attend a class, or everyone won't sell you food, you can't live your life. Commonly discriminated minorities have to be protected because they have a right to do what they want as well. Just as you are free to do what you want, but that doesn't include murdering people. You are free to refuse service, but not based on things that mean that person can't get service anywhere.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#302

Post by notacoward »

toufka wrote: post #238
emsy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently watched an answer on this by Steven Pinker as to why this "re-segregation" is happening. He basically says that legitimate movements don't stop as soon as they've reached their goal and at that point, they start to become regressive. Interestingly he provides an example that hasn't to do with any ism: child protection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFnP5UUXuTk

I think it was Joe Rogan who mentioned a similar point where, until a goal is reached those who want equity and those who just want a position of power are pointed in the exact same direction. It is only once the goal is reached that the difference between the two ideals becomes apparent.

That idea has existed since before Joe Rogan was born, and been explored in far more depth. Crediting it to him seems a bit odd, but perhaps it's telling.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#303

Post by FeepingCreature »

EGreg wrote: post #161
ams6110 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal view is that Trump is deliberately trolling the media, and they are taking the bait every time. There's also a "they can dish it out but can't take it" element to it.

I've watched him and I think it is just too hard for him to control himself. He's got the political correctness and factual accuracy version of dyslexia.

It doesn't really matter if he's deliberately doing it as long as the effects work for him. A strategy doesn't have to be deliberate to be effective.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#305

Post by Dove »

That's how I feel about it, too. There is no war. Women are not oppressed, men are not oppressors. We're all just people with problems who need support and compassion.

Besides being morally wrong, a tribal approach is limiting. If you can't learn from, if you can't make friends and allies with people from all walks of life, if you must sit in your little castle with the few you count as your tribe -- are you not obviously much poorer for it? I think so.

Believing you are an outsider is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just stand up and expect to belong. Judit Polgár eschewed women's chess events because she knew she belonged with the top competitors. And through perseverance and high expectations, this became obvious to everyone. That is how you change the world. Boldly expect acceptance, and my experience has been -- you will receive it. [Source: 20 years on the internet, as a gamer and in tech.]

I think treating someone as disadvantaged, even if they're quadriplegic, does them no favors. It is a kindness to recognize situations in which they need help, but it is an unkindness to make invalid a part of their identity. Let the main story be strength and dignity and independence. And so with those of us whose problems are slighter.

But there is a troubling trend I want to oppose. People seem to have the impression that if a member of class A says the wrong thing around a member of class B, the latter has the right to become vindictively angry. That's . . . really destructive. I think the policy I'm advocating is the best, but if you do something else, I'll take it as you mean it. I think most people are trying to be nice, and understanding and kindness and good old fashioned gettin' along do a whole lot more good than fighting some battle for cosmic justice by being a jerk in the break room.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#306

Post by FeepingCreature »

EGreg wrote: post #266
EGreg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the thing. You can have private opinions but when you express them publicly, the larger the audience the larger the chance that someone can totally misinterpret / take out of context / take IN context but write a diatribe against / etc. what you say. It could be someone who is outraged or someone who actually uses your words to further their ideological agenda against those who are outraged. In short, the mor…

I wanted to comment on a different factor on HN: When I posted this, the upvotes went up to +3 points, and then steadily have been declining to -2 points. No one has commented as to why they are downvoting or whatever. Fine. But I have noticed this on many of my other posts. And I wonder sometimes whether people actually have downvoting rings / clones on HN for topics/people/opinions! It seems to be free to downvote…

To my knowledge, you can't downvote unless you have a certain amount of karma.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#308

Post by alphapapa »

EGreg wrote: post #266
EGreg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the thing. You can have private opinions but when you express them publicly, the larger the audience the larger the chance that someone can totally misinterpret / take out of context / take IN context but write a diatribe against / etc. what you say. It could be someone who is outraged or someone who actually uses your words to further their ideological agenda against those who are outraged. In short, the mor…

I wanted to comment on a different factor on HN: When I posted this, the upvotes went up to +3 points, and then steadily have been declining to -2 points. No one has commented as to why they are downvoting or whatever. Fine. But I have noticed this on many of my other posts. And I wonder sometimes whether people actually have downvoting rings / clones on HN for topics/people/opinions! It seems to be free to downvote…

> It seems to be free to downvote or upvote, so economically it would make sense that there are no repercussions.

Since there is no cost to downvoting, it is cheaper in terms of time and effort to--anonymously!--censor opinions than to express them. It's doubly bad because, in order to acquire downvoting privileges, you must first express enough "correct" opinions, which makes the system self-selecting for certain views. It's a fundamentally broken system, because it incentivizes the wrong things, and it's why I stopped commenting here....oops.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#309

Post by alphapapa »

nsxwolf wrote: post #230
vxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fresh US immigrant from the middle of Europe yet visually passing as an average white man, I haven't even shared the style of upbringing that people assume I did, and yet I lean closer to the opinion expressed above because I fear that a determined person with an agenda can find a way to use my story or opinions to illustrate their point and paint me and broad classes of people as problematic in the process. I e…

I have kids to take care of. There are certain opinions I might have that I dare not discuss. I don't even dare say I have such opinions even without naming them, that's how deep the impulse to self-censor goes. Let's just say I do, hypothetically. I would very much fear for the economic consequences of voicing various opinions. Even if they didn't lead to my termination at work, I'm certain they would prevent any ki…

The question then is, will the world your children inherit be better or worse for people such as yourself holding their tongues.

These free speech rights we technically have were not acquired without cost--on the contrary, they came at enormous cost in blood. Now we refrain from defending them because doing so might inconvenience us.

Of course, it's easy for me to say this, sitting in front of a computer writing vague comments. Food for thought, especially for Americans the day after Independence Day.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#310

Post by mpweiher »

root_axis wrote: post #225
throwanem wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Naturally, people who disagree will respond... the system is working as intended. Interesting elision. Will you expand upon it?

That's free-speech. Person A freely makes a statement and anyone else can freely respond to it. That's the ideal that everyone envisions and it's also the reality on the ground.

Er...not really, no. Some speech is freer than others. I already posted the link earlier, but here it goes again:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/2015/11/24/the-yale-problem-beg...

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