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Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

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51–60 of 72 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#51

What I call the Dilbert-o-meter. When you start noticing too many Dilbert comics acted out in real life, it's time to leave.

That's a pretty good rule. I worked at a telco and a co-worker pointed out that the seemed very likely that Scott Adams had hidden cameras and microphones in our offices. When Dilbert-like rules and decisions start showing up to frequently, it's time to leave. Generally speaking I don't think you should go work for companies with more that 50 - 100 employees. After that stupidity start showing up way too frequently.

There's a reason for stupidity starting to show: Dunbar's number - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

I 100% agree with the application of this. I've become a bit more flexible however - I take a look at the upper bound consideration of this (closer to 150 - 200 people) and apply that to how many engineers have commit access to the source control system. The marketing, bean-counters and other walking business critters headcount don't concern me:)

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#52
post #19

Life stability. Happiness. In that order. The balance between these two is something I need to maintain in order for me to say whether or not it's time to switch the job. Happiness is a lot of things. This is a personal compass. For me it's a combination of doing work that's interesting, working with a company whose mission I believe in personally, while having a good life balance. If I say I'm signing out and saying…

Buffer seems really nice! I like how transparent they are with salaries and that it's fully remote. What technologies are you guys using?

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#53
post #48
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New tech stacks can be learned. If it fits the development and product, why not? Even if you have a personal dislike for it, you could still learn from it. I find in-fighting, interpersonal quibbles and ridiculing of co-workers far more insufferable.

What about moving to old stacks like... PHP?

PHP's problem isn't its age, but that it was intended to do a very specific task in a very specific context, and people who came to it later lack a fundamental understanding of this. If, somehow through magic, PHP was invented today, it would still have this problem, which is the root of most of the other problems with PHP.

I only mention this because some "old stacks" are good, in the sense that they are heavily battle tested, and people still use them because they've been successful over a number of years. You have to be able to use your judgement as a professional to determine whether the move to the "old stack" stems from a good reason or not before deciding to jump.

(I personally would jump if I someone said "let's use PHP instead," but I don't think I would be in a job where PHP could be considered an alternative in the first place. Your situation could be different.)

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#54
I have a simple rule. If you're already seriously contemplating leaving, then it's time to leave. Because typically, it's only going to get worse from there.

Chris Dixon once posted something along the lines of this: "If you think you're going to fire someone six months from now, you should fire them now."

I believe that if you think things will get worse 6 months from now, then leave now.

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#55
post #19

Life stability. Happiness. In that order. The balance between these two is something I need to maintain in order for me to say whether or not it's time to switch the job. Happiness is a lot of things. This is a personal compass. For me it's a combination of doing work that's interesting, working with a company whose mission I believe in personally, while having a good life balance. If I say I'm signing out and saying…

Buffer seems really nice! I like how transparent they are with salaries and that it's fully remote. What technologies are you guys using?

It's a wonderful place really. The people are also really nice and my only wish is that we could meet each other more in real life :D.

As for tech that we are using,

The main app uses php. But lately we've been breaking apart the app into micro services which are a combination of node js, golang, and Python/flask apps. We run it all on kubernetes. Meanwhile the front end has been transitioning towards being more react based :)

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#56
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buffer seems really nice! I like how transparent they are with salaries and that it's fully remote. What technologies are you guys using?

It's a wonderful place really. The people are also really nice and my only wish is that we could meet each other more in real life :D. As for tech that we are using, The main app uses php. But lately we've been breaking apart the app into micro services which are a combination of node js, golang, and Python/flask apps. We run it all on kubernetes. Meanwhile the front end has been transitioning towards being more reac…

Nice. I need to find a job like that. I moved out to a new province and accepted the first job I got offered and I didn't like it.

Then I got offered and accepted a new job which seemed nice but it's just so boring.

I need to be more picky seeing how companies like Buffer exist. I always just take the first offer I get because I don't like interviews and I've been lucky enough to get a job offer after the first interview I do when looking, but it's pretty stupid in retrospect. It's a gamble that has long lasting effects.

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#57

Best thing I have on this is a quote from Steve Jobs : "When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And…

I have seen this quote before, but I hadn't thought about it as a mantra before (ie. putting yourself in the mindset for focus and sales). As a leader of a company, you need to be able to convince your team that this job/task/project is the most important thing in the world. If you don't believe it yourself, you won't be able to sell them (or your customers) on it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of corporate america is a dying creature then. The problem is that the vast majority of the upstarts who will eat them will also die, -and- even the winners may not usurp anything for 20+ years. At which point they, too, will likely start 'dying'. I think you exaggerate the diagnosis. As with a patient with a disease, you have to modify treatment. The reality is that learning to deal with office pol…

Im sure if you are higher up in this Ponzi Scheme you have all the time for a sophisticated justification. But where i am, we need our attention on problem solving, attention on important (often cross-department) details - we do not have the time and resources for procedure-obsessed bureaucrats, leeching initiative and resources into there little Japanese gardens of power, while the project as a whole suffers- and al…

I have 5 years as a dev, and two as a lead dev/architect. I am only recently taking on management tasks. My comment is not biased because I am "higher up in this ponzi scheme", it is predicated on -what I have seen-.

You are living in the happy little world I got to live in before my current job (when I was simply a senior dev), where there was enough protection of the dev team that I didn't need to concern myself about the business (beyond the occasional clarification of a story), didn't need to concern myself with departmental and organizational 'politics', and when I saw it I rolled my eyes at it, hated it, decided I'd never deal with that sort of thing, etc.

But even at the dev team level there were 'politics'; technical decisions would oftentimes be made based on who had the most clout. Now, that clout was usually due to, de facto, speaking to what the rest of the team cared about, understood, etc (i.e., technical language and priorities). But once you go inter-disciplinary, that stops being true.

Fundamentally, most people want to succeed, and they recognize that the way to do that is delivering results. Sometimes there are leeches, who learn to abuse the system and take credit while not helping deliver. It's abuses like this that deserve our condemnation. But the fact is that in an organization there are multiple roles, with differing priorities, and differing definitions of 'success', and fundamentally the way you deal with that -requires- a level of empathy and influence. You can decry it all you like, but that's reality, and something you'd benefit from adapting to rather than objecting to. I'd love it if everyone was technical, even those whose roles are solely focused on business direction and strategy. I'd love it if everyone thought like me, prioritized like me, and was completely objective in making decisions. But that's simply not the world we live in, and, I suspect, that would actually lead to a worse outcome (I'm not good at sales, for instance, and I don't have the insight into how best to sell something, even if it's technically superior and the UX is better than any competitors). You don't have to like it (and again, I -don't- like it), but that's the truth.

Please note, I'm not saying that every org is healthy. But I -am- saying that regardless of the health, understanding what people's motivations are, and how best to disseminate, discuss, debate, and prioritize information given the context you're in will help you tremendously.

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#59
post #36

When a company starts focusing the majority of its energy inwards: politics, favoritism, infighting, thinking of how to look good internally, bullshit stats and presentations, you name it - but very little time spend on the customer or the product.

One of my reasons for leaving is that I'm watching our internal systems dissolve - some of the stuff I have responsibility for is hosted on rickety old systems that are long due for replacement, but management refuses to spend any money (or allocate time to rebuild them) because they're not customer-facing. Painful underinvestment for political reasons will be the death of this company. The IT team are fighting fires on a daily basis, and a major outage would probably have the 4 of them walking out (yes, 4 people supporting a global company). I've wisely decided to move on before it all melts.

Re: Ask HN: How do you decide on when to leave/switch job?

#60
post #4

Not learning anymore. The previous job I was at was a rather boring one after a few months. The company had already encountered most of the customizations clients requested and most of the new projects ended up being solely copy-paste work from older projects. This meant writing no new code but just applying older patch files and tweaking some config like the header and footer of the website. Since I was not learning…

Agreed. A job needs to be mutually beneficial or you'll wind up hating every day of it.

I'm at a stage where I have learned a lot, but I find a lot of resistance to implementing my ideas for political reasons - e.g. in replacing our ticketing system, I drew up a proposal for something we already had licenses for, would integrate with our systems and provided features our developers would want. An unrelated team in America had been trialling some expensive software in isolation. I learned the software I was proposing, taught colleagues how to use the prototype, got positive feedback, got licensing sorted (free)... and my idea was swept aside because it wasn't the expensive software the guy in charge (who had approved my prototype) had already decided to go with.

Figured then there was little point in me learning stuff that would benefit this company because decisions have already been made, so I'm moving on.

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