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US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

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Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#141

Post by subsubsub »

cat199 wrote: post #88
subsubsub wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be over estimating how much the British care about having/not having an empire. If you can get around the paywall, this might be worth a read: https://www.ft.com/content/a9c45baa-1dc6-11e7-b7d3-163f5a7f2...

> I think you might be over estimating how much the British care about having/not having an empire. Even if the linked piece is correct (tending to agree somewhat), it is written in a modern context with respect to Brexit. The James Bond novels were created in the early 50's when the empire was still a real thing that was actually breaking up, and before 'multiculturalism' was really a thing in any serious way (see m…

A fair point. I have unintentionally misrepresented what was being said in order to make my own point. Although, I think it is worth referencing next time you hear someone talk about attitudes to empire in the context of modern Britain.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#142

Post by soundwave106 »

akvadrako wrote: post #31
mistermann wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never watched west wing, how did it seem like propoganda, and what message did it send?

If it was propaganda it must be Democratic propaganda, because it's view of Washington was recognisable as quite close to the Democratic worldview.

As far as I can tell, "West Wing" clearly is aligned with the worldview of Aaron Sorkin, just as "24" seems pretty aligned with the worldview of Joel Surnow.

I'm not sure at what point a strong worldview from a creator crosses over to the "propaganda" definition? So many shows over time have had creators with very distinctive, often strong, worldviews and opinions. I can say that about so many shows ranging from "Twilight Zone" to "Star Trek" to "MASH" to "South Park". I'm not sure I'd call any one of these "propaganda".

For whatever reason, I tend to think of "propaganda" as persuasion coming more from group collectives, such as governments.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#143

Post by CodeMage »

wil421 wrote: post #122
Someone1234 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really defending the US by comparing it to NK and Russia? That's a very low bar indeed. Also, a lot of other countries don't have such extreme levels of jingoism, certainly not in Europe we don't. World War II taught us where such extreme patriotism leads. Trump is a natural and direct result of jingoism; but yet it continues.

The whole post was sacastic.

Supposing that's true, you might need to get acquainted with Poe's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#144

Post by azinman2 »

cat199 wrote: post #94
symmetricsaurus wrote: post #55

This is an absurd situation, having a military minder that tells you what you can and can't say in a production. It is hard to avoid some kind of interference if you want to borrow military equipment though. There is always some standard that you want to uphold that is probably higher than what is allowed by the first amendment. The solution is to not allow the military to lend any assistance to movie productions. Fr…

> The solution is to not allow the military to lend any assistance to movie productions. Frankly, it's not their job anyways. This is the only way to avoid the kind of influence described in the article. Unfortunately this 'solution' doesnt facilitate the foreign effect from distributing these films abroad to spread positive american sentiment and further the goals of the US govt and Hollywood and corporations (produ…

The article is poorly written so I can’t tell what’s real and what’s not, but it seems to imply that people go to the military asking for “toys” (article is very non-specific here), and that’s part of the deal. It doesn’t seem to imply somehow the military is censoring all films made in the US.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#145

Post by CodeMage »

Animats wrote: post #140
gumby wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know: when I was a kid I was taught that the countries that needed these ritualistic pledges of patriotism and flag worship were the totalitarian ones (USSR, GDR, Turkey, Imperial Japan, etc). It was a shock to see my kid have to learn a flag prayer in the USA. And sport is a private sector activity -- why should the government be involved?

"Flag Prayer"? The Pledge of Allegiance? Only US citizens should recite the pledge of allegiance. Non US citizens owe their loyalty to another country. But schools don't do that, because it would mean identifying US citizens.

I would respectfully disagree that US citizens "should" recite the pledge of allegiance every day at school. I understand that you probably meant something along the lines of "it makes no sense for non-US citizens to recite the pledge of allegiance at all", but I'd still like to address the point you happened to write.

I'm firmly convinced that no child, citizen or not, should engage in a daily ritual like that, especially not at school. The worst aspect of contemporary education -- not only in the US, but in many other countries -- is teaching through indoctrination. Instead of encouraging our kids to develop their critical thinking, our educational systems focus on making them learn by repetition and trust the authority.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#146

Post by jalfresi »

gumby wrote: post #79
altcognito wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

53 million over 3 years, or 17 million dollars a year over multiple sports. A far cry from "hundreds of millions of dollars" And I'm pretty sure that advertising in sports is common sense. Advertising during daytime TV isn't likely to have the same bang for your buck. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/defense-military-tribute...

> And I'm pretty sure that advertising in sports is common sense. There are two sorts of advertising. One is recruitment ("join the army, blow shit up, have fun") targeted at potential employees. The other is a broad-based effort to change public perception in the interests of the advertising organization. "Honor our troops" is an example of this, in the effort of sustaining the military-industrial complex (term coin…

"Public Relations" is the rebranding of propaganda

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#147

Post by scalio »

fixermark wrote: post #71
mistermann wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, in my experience most people believe that propoganda being used within western countries is a conspiracy theory.

I suspect people assume propaganda is only propaganda if there's a centralized "Ministry of Truth" that (a) has one coherent message, (b) is controlled top-down from a central authority, and (c) has police authority to silence deviations from the playbook by force. As with so much in Western capitalist democracy, America's style of propaganda doesn't fit that authoritarian rubric, but it ends up having similar effect…

House of Cards made me realize something very self-evident: the baddies in "realistic" entertainment media do not reflect the baddies in real life (ditto for the good guys, for that matter). I saw one day that I was conflating real world and HoC politics. Not the actual events, but rather how the different actors got or lost their way. Since I don't know what's going on behind the curtains, I started filling that gap in real-world knowledge with constructions based on the personal politics portrayed in HoC. Now, I try to be as suspicious as sanely possible of anything even remotely tied to politics, and yet it took me a month to notice my error.

What happens in minds that don't? I suspect they imagine the real world functions like the dream worlds created in studios. I think that's the insidiousness of propaganda you're describing.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#148

Post by mistermann »

scalio wrote: post #147
fixermark wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect people assume propaganda is only propaganda if there's a centralized "Ministry of Truth" that (a) has one coherent message, (b) is controlled top-down from a central authority, and (c) has police authority to silence deviations from the playbook by force. As with so much in Western capitalist democracy, America's style of propaganda doesn't fit that authoritarian rubric, but it ends up having similar effect…

House of Cards made me realize something very self-evident: the baddies in "realistic" entertainment media do not reflect the baddies in real life (ditto for the good guys, for that matter). I saw one day that I was conflating real world and HoC politics. Not the actual events, but rather how the different actors got or lost their way. Since I don't know what's going on behind the curtains, I started filling that gap…

> What happens in minds that don't?

You get our current surreal, completely separated from reality political climate.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#149

Post by buttcoinslol »

jerrylives wrote: post #95
fixermark wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The America of "Snow Crash" has as its primary exports software and culture, via Hollywood. It seems to continue to be an apropos prediction.

No it's not. Software is not even in the top ten of US exports

iOS, Android, Facebook, Snapchat, Whatsapp, etc are all software...

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#150

Post by elil17 »

silveira wrote: post #25

With use of computer graphics they can do more movies without the military interference.

One of the resources the military provides is computer graphics assets like models of planes. So no, a movie that tries to create cgi scenes of war without military approval will be at a strong financial disadvantage compared to one that is allowed to use premade assets supplied by DOD.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5xfBtD6rLY

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