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Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

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Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#81

Post by throwaway9954 »

jbms wrote: post #74
chongli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with inductive charging is that it's inefficient. This means it'll take longer to charge and produce a bunch of extra waste heat. For a battery as large as an electric car's, this could be a considerable cost.

93% efficiency at 1kW and 30kW wireless power delivery (from AC plug to vehicle, not 93% only for the transmission): http://www.deltaenergysystems.com/en/Wireless-Charging-Syste... This is very close to systems that are using cables and connectors.

The loss associated with wireless charging is in addition to other losses, so this is 7% loss on top of whatever other losses are in the production, delivery and power conversion chain.

Given the sheer amount of power used by vehicles, I would prefer we minimize losses there. Wireless charging for tablets, smartphones and other devices is less of a concern.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#82

Post by kpil »

jbms wrote: post #74
chongli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with inductive charging is that it's inefficient. This means it'll take longer to charge and produce a bunch of extra waste heat. For a battery as large as an electric car's, this could be a considerable cost.

93% efficiency at 1kW and 30kW wireless power delivery (from AC plug to vehicle, not 93% only for the transmission): http://www.deltaenergysystems.com/en/Wireless-Charging-Syste... This is very close to systems that are using cables and connectors.

I'm not sure of what effects you are talking about, but at home a reasonably probable 32 A 400V 10mm cable that is 8m long is about 99.75% efficient. I'm not sure about contacts but let's say it's at least 99%efficient in total.

Fast charging stations is probably worse though.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#83

Post by agumonkey »

greedo wrote: post #75
freehunter wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lying about emissions thing only became a problem because the testing wasn't sufficient enough to catch the cheats. Companies are going to cheat, they're going to lie, they're going to skirt as much regulation as they can. That's a fact of capitalism, companies are going to do whatever they can to make as much money as possible. It's the job of government inspectors to make sure the regulations are being followed…

Not sure cheating, lying and skirting regulations are a fact of capitalism so much as a fact of any economic system. Many Soviet factories lied to meet quotas, both numerical and qualitative.

Interesting questions, how much lying is the result of competition, economic paradigm or just chaos and human nature ?

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#84

Post by gorkonsine »

chongli wrote: post #29
worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

The problem with inductive charging is that it's inefficient. This means it'll take longer to charge and produce a bunch of extra waste heat. For a battery as large as an electric car's, this could be a considerable cost.

The GM EV1 electric car had inductive charging back in the 1990s, using a "paddle" charger.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#85

Post by Gracana »

jbms wrote: post #74
chongli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with inductive charging is that it's inefficient. This means it'll take longer to charge and produce a bunch of extra waste heat. For a battery as large as an electric car's, this could be a considerable cost.

93% efficiency at 1kW and 30kW wireless power delivery (from AC plug to vehicle, not 93% only for the transmission): http://www.deltaenergysystems.com/en/Wireless-Charging-Syste... This is very close to systems that are using cables and connectors.

Very close? There's no way you're losing anywhere near 2kW (7% loss in a 30kW charger) to cables and connectors.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#86

Post by skywhopper »

worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

If self-driving cars ever actually work, then a robot arm that can plug the charger into the whatever car will not be a significant engineering challenge.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#87

Post by skywhopper »

leojg wrote: post #80
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wrong, but the reasoning is off. China has basically mandated from the top a huge push in electric vehicles. This hmeans everyone has to ramp up on their tech. Toyota was for example hugely caught off guard because they were betting on hydrogen. Geely and other Chinese companies are quicker to receive these signals.

why not both? hydrogen cells seems to me as a great tech with a lot of potential. They can be used in situations where electrical chargers are not avaiable.

Hydrogen fuel cells are essentially just a really complicated battery. The technology undoubtedly has uses, but powering automobiles seems a poor choice. 30 years ago, it probably seemed more reasonable to transition the gasoline shipping-and-pumping power delivery to hydrogen, but the primary benefit is just the zero-emission aspect (at the car itself at least). But today, chemical battery tech has progressed to the point that it's on the edge of full practicality, and hydrogen isn't really any closer to reality than in was in the 90s.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#88

Post by xattt »

gorkonsine wrote: post #84
chongli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with inductive charging is that it's inefficient. This means it'll take longer to charge and produce a bunch of extra waste heat. For a battery as large as an electric car's, this could be a considerable cost.

The GM EV1 electric car had inductive charging back in the 1990s, using a "paddle" charger.

This is likely because people were terrified of plugging exposed high current high voltage connectors in outdoor setting.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#89

Post by gorkonsine »

hjalle wrote: post #73
alkonaut wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with them is that they don't offer the greatest benefit of electric: the simple drive train. No thousands of moving part kept moving by a handful of fluids and rubber pulleys all needing meticulous care. With the hybrid you get the best of both worlds in convenience and range but the worst in maintenance. Battery aging? Check. Expensive combustion engine service schedules? Check.

Couldn't you get at least a simpler drive train if you only used the engine as a generator?

No, not really. You still need a full-fledged engine. You might be able to simplify it a bit because it doesn't need to produce optimal fuel economy across a large operating range, but it still isn't going to be much different than a normal car engine. For a good example, check out the Chevy Volt, which works exactly the way you say.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#90

Post by IncRnd »

worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

Inductive charging isn't really a feature. It is so easy to plug-in, and inductive charging has a lower efficiency than using cables.
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