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Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

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Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#21

Post by harshreality »

laxentasken wrote: post #8
gutnor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 years ago was also before the diesel gate. Here in Europe, we moved from Diesel is king to the specialist press running article on why you can still consider buying a Diesel car in 2017 in some condition. That triggered countries like Germany to announce plan to ban gas car sales in a decade. Regardless what Volvo CEO thought 3 years ago, the market has shifted in a clear direction and it is his job to adapt. In a…

I wonder how Porsche and the alike will adapt to that situation. Sure it will take some years before someone will start pushing it...

I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

When level 5 self-driving is available, it won't be too difficult to add a wheel back and have modes where the self-driving capability maintains safety for other drivers on the road, but allows the driver to assume some risk for their own car and personal safety.

Different modes could allow the driver to accept different levels of risk to themselves and of their car, while still providing automatic protection and avoidance of other drivers on the road. Probably some more... extreme... modes could require posting a bond with the insurance company or government to cover personal injury.

If someone doesn't mind risking their car (collision insurance would no longer apply in these modes), and can pay for any injuries they sustain, as long as they aren't risking other people's health and safety, the computer could let them drive how they want, within certain risk limits.

I'm not so sure people will bother, though. Once car-to-car transponders are mandatory, creating an intelligent grid of vehicle awareness, what fun is it to zoom around other cars as if they're stationary if they know you're coming?

I don't believe people want the actual risk associated with aggressive driving. They just want to beat other drivers. Computer games should take up most of the slack. Even really simple games like Race The Sun offer plenty of adrenaline and reflex development with no actual risk. If you want actual (substantial) risk, go rock climb above your ability, or skydive without a reserve chute.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#22

Post by gambiting »

harshreality wrote: post #21
laxentasken wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how Porsche and the alike will adapt to that situation. Sure it will take some years before someone will start pushing it...

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. When level 5 self-driving is available, it won't be too difficult to add a wheel back and have modes where the self-driving capability maintains safety for other drivers on the road, but allows the driver to assume some risk for their own car and personal safety. Different modes could allow the driver to accept different levels of risk to themselves and of their car, while st…

This here is one of the reasons why I think manual cars will never go away, or at least they won't be banned outright - new cars will have enough systems to stop you from crashing in almost every situation, while allowing you to "drive" - so why ban it?

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#23

Post by gutnor »

gambiting wrote: post #20
gutnor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 years ago was also before the diesel gate. Here in Europe, we moved from Diesel is king to the specialist press running article on why you can still consider buying a Diesel car in 2017 in some condition. That triggered countries like Germany to announce plan to ban gas car sales in a decade. Regardless what Volvo CEO thought 3 years ago, the market has shifted in a clear direction and it is his job to adapt. In a…

>>that some countries will forbid non-automated car to access some public road in the near future. I am sorry, but I don't believe that will happen in anything that could be described as near future. I don't see any actual bans to be introduced any sooner than 30-50 years from now, and even then only if: 1) the technology gets really good, not just "kind of good but only when the conditions are optimal" 2) the techno…

That's my point actually. You can't predict that, like you could predict the sudden demise of Diesel only 3 years ago.

3 years ago you could probably have done exactly the same reasoning with electric cars (eg: London 0-emission goal are for 2050). And I mean, if my country decided to go full electric in 10 years, I have no idea how I could own a car, unless charging speed, or street infrastructure, or millage vastly improved. Nothing of that has a clear 10 years roadmap. Yet here we are.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#24

Post by HenryBemis »

worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

Regarding the charging stations & related accessories, wait till Apple make its own electric car and I absolutely P_R_O_M_I_S_E you that action #1 on their agenda is to ensure that they use their own cables and fuses!!!!! (that will cost x20 the competition's accessories of course).

Joking apart, this is good news for Humanity and planet Earth!

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#25

Post by ckastner »

johansch wrote: post #14
comboy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my thoughts. Plus, I wonder where are they going to get batteries from ;) Current hybrids pure electric range is laughable.

> Plus, I wonder where are they going to get batteries from ;) Maybe here: http://nordic.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-former-right-ha...

Or rather from Panasonic. That's where Tesla get's its batteries from.

(Tesla financed the Gigafactory, but it is operated by Panasonic, and they previously bought their lithium-battery cells from Panasonic. This is according to Tesla's own 10-K filings [1,2]).

[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459016...

[2] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459017...

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#26

Post by alkonaut »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #16
geff82 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does not want to go 100% electric, but 100% hybrid AND electric.

Plugin hybrids do seem to offer the best of both worlds right now.

My problem with them is that they don't offer the greatest benefit of electric: the simple drive train. No thousands of moving part kept moving by a handful of fluids and rubber pulleys all needing meticulous care. With the hybrid you get the best of both worlds in convenience and range but the worst in maintenance. Battery aging? Check. Expensive combustion engine service schedules? Check.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#27

Post by _ph_ »

petre wrote: post #17
gutnor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 years ago was also before the diesel gate. Here in Europe, we moved from Diesel is king to the specialist press running article on why you can still consider buying a Diesel car in 2017 in some condition. That triggered countries like Germany to announce plan to ban gas car sales in a decade. Regardless what Volvo CEO thought 3 years ago, the market has shifted in a clear direction and it is his job to adapt. In a…

Diesel engines can be ran on DME (dimethyl ether) with a redesigned fuel system. DME is clean and its's storage requirements are nearly the same as for LPG: pressurized containers at 0.5 MPa (roadbike tyre pressure). Volvo Trucks has partnered with Oberon Fuels and converted several trucks to run on DME. http://www.volvotrucks.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/VTC/Corpo... Also Mack Trucks is looking into DME as an alterna…

And where would the DME come from? It would still produce CO2 when burnt, even if there are less toxic byproducts. If created from atmosphere CO2 it most likely would use way more electricity than a battery powered car.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#28

Post by _ph_ »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #16
geff82 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does not want to go 100% electric, but 100% hybrid AND electric.

Plugin hybrids do seem to offer the best of both worlds right now.

For heavy loads, like pulling trailers over very long distances, this is true, but for most other applications, I think it is the right time now to go full-electric, as you get rid of the combustion engine, which is the most complex and maintenance-intense part of your car.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#29

Post by chongli »

worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

The problem with inductive charging is that it's inefficient. This means it'll take longer to charge and produce a bunch of extra waste heat. For a battery as large as an electric car's, this could be a considerable cost.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#30

Post by Ygg2 »

jlebrech wrote: post #9
worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

they had battery swapping stations, it would mean a "charge" in under a minute. but it needs a much greater infrastructure.

Storing that many batteries in one place... Seems dangerous.
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