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Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

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Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#41

Post by ido »

gcb0 wrote: post #34
gonehome wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Fiat 500e is extremely cheap to lease ($87/month). Last year there was even a point where it was $1500 down, since you get a $2500 incentive check from California if you got that deal you were basically being paid to take it. Most people would be fine with an EV given how much they actually drive, it's not just for rich people.

and then you ignore that a cheap ev can't be the only car for a person, specially out of san fran. so now you have two insurances. two garages or live well enough to have two street parking. two maintenance bills. etc. etc.

Why can't a cheap ev be a person's only car in SF?

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#42

Post by wyager »

Pica_soO wrote: post #35
gonehome wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Fiat 500e is extremely cheap to lease ($87/month). Last year there was even a point where it was $1500 down, since you get a $2500 incentive check from California if you got that deal you were basically being paid to take it. Most people would be fine with an EV given how much they actually drive, it's not just for rich people.

Maintainenace bill on a EV? There is near nothing in them. Battery. Check. 4 E-Motors. Check. End of List.

Steering system, suspension, tires, wiring, brakes, boots, joints, etc...

There's more to a car than the engine. Electric vehicles shave off engine, transmission(?), and fuel system, but add batteries, high-power electronics, and electric motors (presumably with either a transmission or some way to adjust back-EMF).

The majority of the time inspecting a car is spent elsewhere than the engine. Most shops just plug into the OBD and give a visual inspection of timing belt, fan belt, etc. and look at maintenance stickers.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#43

Post by secabeen »

Cookingboy wrote: post #40
Pica_soO wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintainenace bill on a EV? There is near nothing in them. Battery. Check. 4 E-Motors. Check. End of List.

I didn't realize that EVs no longer use tires, brakes, brake fluids. Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die. Pretty much the only routine you save from ICE is the oil change per 10k miles.

Actually, the wear on the brakes is significantly less because most braking is done by regeneration from the motor(s). There's no transmission fluid, no belts, no fuel air, or oil filters to replace. It is a significantly less complicated system.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#44

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Cookingboy wrote: post #40
Pica_soO wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintainenace bill on a EV? There is near nothing in them. Battery. Check. 4 E-Motors. Check. End of List.

I didn't realize that EVs no longer use tires, brakes, brake fluids. Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die. Pretty much the only routine you save from ICE is the oil change per 10k miles.

Electric cars leverage heavily regenerative braking, which substantially reduces wear and tear on the friction brake system. So the brake pads and fluid will require a lot less maintenance.

You are still right about the tires though.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#45

Post by wyager »

grecy wrote: post #27
radious wrote: post #8

HOV lanes in Bay Area will get so crowded...

No worries, they will add more. Before you disagree, remember there was a time they went from exactly zero HOV lanes to one.. which is an infinite increase. This time they will go from whatever they have now (usually one) to two, which is at most only a 100% increase. Also keep in mind the day will come that all roads will only permit electric vehicles, essentially meaning all lanes are "HOV". So from 2017 -> the fut…

> Also keep in mind the day will come that all roads will only permit electric vehicles,

That would be pretty dumb. This is a very strange claim from an overlander (assuming you agree with it); surely you're aware that batteries are nowhere near the energy density of chemical fuel, and probably won't be for a long time. We're even further away from practical electric ATVs or motorcycles. Banning gas vehicles in the next ~50 years would be incredibly destructive to rural areas and outdoor recreation.

By the time it would be semi-feasible to outlaw gas vehicles, there'd probably be no point, because electrics would be cheaper for most consumers anyway.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#46

Post by prostoalex »

dfabulich wrote: post #19
DannyBee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's California for you: The people who use the lanes, by and large, don't need them[1], and simultaneously, California subsidizes and encourages electric car driving while having, by far, the absolute worst electrical infrastructure in the country, with no real plan to improve it[2] Don't worry, somehow, they are saving the environment in all this, despite the fact that most cars these days probably put out less e…

> Don't worry, somehow, they are saving the environment in all this, despite the fact that most cars these days probably put out less emissions than a family that ate too many beans. First, this comparison is wrong. Cars generate roughly 5,000 liters of of CO2 per gallon. A human passes about one liter of gas per day, maybe two. But even if you were right, what's the point of this comparison? We can eliminate the CO2…

For context, after converting 50,000,000 vehicles from internal combustion to electric, the effect would be similar to eliminating 1 container ship (likely used to cargo all the materials and components necessary to build those cars). https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/apr/09/shipping...

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#47

Post by _pmf_ »

Fej wrote: post #38

So is it likely (or even possible) that TSLA really is the most shorted stock on Earth? I've seen this tossed around repeatedly, although perhaps it's just a rumor. On the other hand, > Tesla said that it's now "rare" for a new Model X to have "initial quality problems." [1] doesn't sound very pretty. [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/03/tesla-delivers-22000-vehicles...

Tying novel ideas in a mass road vehicle is a very, very bad idea. If these ideas include supply chain and QC shortcuts, it pretty much guarantees failure. I applaud Tesla for "making EV sexy" and pushing existing OEMs, but unless Musk gets his ego in check and starts tackling the boring (no pun intended) problems instead of trying to promote himself as autonomous driving messiah, I don't see the first batch of mass produced 3s as having a high chance of being acceptable.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#48

Post by jondubois »

I wonder if Tesla is worried that this new model might cannibalize its more expensive, more profitable model S?

Also, I should think that the level of automation required to produce a mass market car on the scale necessary to be profitable would be insane... And I bet Toyota, GM and all the others have patents on many, if not all of these production automation technologies.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#49

Post by mowenz »

imron wrote: post #24
greenyoda wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The same is even more true of the US, I did the math out in an earlier HN post, IIRC it comes out to something ridiculous like double or triple all current residential electric usage on a yearly basis." In NYC, we get uncomfortably close to peak electrical capacity on hot summer days, to the point where the utilities beg us to reduce consumption (e.g., e-mails at work saying the power company is asking us to turn of…

> we fire up the dirty, old oil-fired power plants as the generators of last resort. But it's probably still a net win if that extra electricity is going to power electric cars, because a power plant is more efficient than thousands of internal combustion engines. See: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-li...

Good lord that is a long-winded post. Not just in scope, but the writing style rambles and opines endlessly.

For the record, I'm excited for the Model 3, and would buy a Model S if I could afford it.

That said, the claim in that reference is problematic for many reasons, which I didn't notice were addressed: 1) Thermal efficiency in a vehicle is converted directly to mechanical energy. A power plant must convert thermal energy into electrical energy (losses involved), transmit it long distances across an energy grid (more losses involved), store it in a battery (more losses), and convert it back to mechanical energy (even more losses). 2) EVs like the Model S lug around as much as >1,000s of lbs of batteries. That's monstrously inefficient when specifically compared to the energy density of gasoline. 3) Some power generators may emit more pollution than modern cars-1

From a public policy perspective, the low-hanging fruits in the fight for cleaner emissions are to get people in gas guzzlers into Civics and Accords, not to get people in Civics and Accords in to EVs. That, and public transportation, bicycling infrastructure, and raising the price of carbon to align with the public cost of it.

1-https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are...

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#50

Post by prostoalex »

Cookingboy wrote: post #40
Pica_soO wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintainenace bill on a EV? There is near nothing in them. Battery. Check. 4 E-Motors. Check. End of List.

I didn't realize that EVs no longer use tires, brakes, brake fluids. Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die. Pretty much the only routine you save from ICE is the oil change per 10k miles.

> Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die.

You need to know the context and back story of this before claiming that it's something Tesla "recommends". Tesla did not offer maintenance initially, and it was not in the books until it became a top-requested and top-discussed subject on owner message boards. The company then reluctantly admitted that fear of not finding a suitable repair shop drove buyers' decisions towards not buying and started offering the plan.

The year 1 service, for example, includes such onerous tasks as "Key fob battery replacement" and "Wiper blade set replacement". If you want to save money or for whatever reason refuse to set a foot inside a Tesla Service Center, you don't really need to. Until year 4, looks like.

https://www.tesla.com/support/maintenance-plans?redirect=no

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