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What Is Space?

nautil.us

141–150 of 155 posts

Re: What Is Space?

#141
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could gravity be the result of space trying to deflate/return to the pre-Big Bang singularity, kind of like pulling magnets apart? i.e. is gravity the “opposite” of, or a reaction to, “space?” I may be off the mark with what you believe, but just in case: It's a common misconception that the big bang originated at a specific point. The big bang seems to have happened everywhere simultaneously, so it wouldn't be true…

This only applies if the universe is infinite. We don't know it for sure, though we have a lower bound of the universe size at 250 Hubble volumes: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-3933.2011.... And infinite universe brings strange phenomenons, like our doppelgangers far away, that are exactly like us.

Infinite universe can contain infinite set of objects without any of them being your doppleganger. Unless there's only limited set of objects that can exist in universe at all which doesn't seem likely.

Re: What Is Space?

#142
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, there about has to be a purpose. Why does there have to be a purpose? The rest of your post is discussing philosophy, but I'll indulge anyway. > A first little clue is the speed of light speed limit that so far seems to say that we are quite isolated from the rest of the universe. So, somehow having us isolated was deliberate. What makes you think it was deliberate? The derivation of the speed of light comes di…

> The rest of your post is discussing philosophy, I'm trying not to be philosophical and wondering if by now we have enough data so that we can talk about purpose without being philosophical. Sure, that we have that much data now is a long shot! > What makes you think it was deliberate? It looks like it might be a deliberate case of our being denied information that might let us see behind the curtain, that is, see m…

Alright, I'm just going to focus on the physics in your comment.

> How we get from special relativity to that, I want to check out in detail.

It's a fairly trivial derivation once you get past the fact that Newtonian mechanics doesn't work at relativistic speeds (the big insight Einstein had was his conviction that Maxwell was correct and Newton was wrong). You do it in second-year physics courses (at least, that's when I did it). You can even do it intuitively. If light always propagates at c, no matter what speed you're travelling at, then the Lorentz transformations are the only way that different reference frames are able to agree on measurements.

> Also there is the EPR "spooky action at a distance". Sure, the usual statement is that this does not permit communications faster than the speed of light

To be fair, this is actually quite hard to wrap your head around. There are definitely papers on the topic if you want to read them, but the effective reason why you cannot communicate using entangled particles is related to the distinction between the phase and group velocities. A phase velocity can be faster than the speed of light, but it carries no information (without also knowing other properties of the wave which travel slower than the speed of light). The orientation of the two particles is (effectively) their relative phase but you can't actually communicate information using it.

> Maybe they generate an electron-positron pair, and maybe they don't. That's a roll of the dice.

Again, currently we do not have a way of predicting the outcome of an individual experiment, but there's no reason to believe that we will never be able to do so.

> We have axiomatic set theory as our foundation of math

... which gives us Godel's incompleteness theorem. Maybe ET has a far more sophisticated basis of mathematics that doesn't permit Godel. I don't know, but it's a bit odd to claim that axiomatic set theory is somehow the holy grail (it has its own problems such as the requirement of the Axiom of Choice).

> Still, to me, that there is this wall of 3 K radiation, in surprising senses uniform, is one heck of a situation.

We know why that happened though, it's because of inflation.

Re: What Is Space?

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The Planck units [0] are generally associated with the attempt to quantize space and time. - Macroscopic phenomena are in turn governed by microscopic phenomena, where the strong and weak forces dominate, so I would say our dimension is equally governed by those. At high energies we know the electromagnetic and weak forces combine into the "electroweak" force, and it is commonly hypothesized that at even higher ene…

> the Big Crunch, where gravity would pull the universe back to a single point Just as the big bang didn't happen in a single place, a Big Crunch wouldn't be a contraction back to a single point . Rather, the scale factor [1] that characterises cosmic expansion would simply(!) decline back to zero. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_factor_(cosmology)

Well, "we don't know" applies here.

To a first order approximation (e.g. in the FLRW perfect fluid model), a Big Crunch would resemble a time-reversal of the standard big bang cosmology.

In our universe, time reversal results in galaxies appearing at a comoving observer's horizon, and everything inside the horizon becoming denser and hotter.

Ultimately the density and heat is expected to result in beyond-the-Standard Model physics in the matter sector, and (hopefully) new physics in the gravitational sector.

We don't really know what those physics will be. Everyone hopes for something that prevents a gravitational singularity from forming, but so far what we have in terms of possible stabilizers are conjectural at best.

The time-reversals of Big Crunch and the usual-forward-time big bang cosmology with structure formation relate to the BH information loss problem. For a non-eternal BH when we time-reverse from i+ we have a gas of Hawking radiation that collapses into a time-reversed BH which eventually emits matter with much less (Boltzmann) entropy -- ions, molecules, dust, stars and even the things orbiting them. (A time-reversed stellar BH likewise will eventually spit out a white dwarf or neutron star with their respective complex layerings). How does a time-reversed BH "know" how to spit out whole stellar-mass objects when only time-reversed Hawking radiation fell into it? Most quantum gravity programmes hope that strong gravity[1] produces an environment where this sort of (time-reversed) structure formation is likely.

Flipping the arrow(s)-of-time is extremely useful for reasoning in a setting in which strong gravity is important, and extra-underlines the question of why we have the arrow(s)-of-time we do in the first place. "Boundary conditions did it" is pretty unsatisfying.

- --

[1] i.e., where the radius of curvature is on the order of the Planck length; this mostly comes from the non-renormalizability of perturbatively quantized gravity (where we quantize perturbations of a background metric) and from work in finding the effective field theory limit of semiclassical gravity; generally it's very close to a gravitational singularity and -- depending on the censorship conjecture -- always invisible to outside observers.

Re: What Is Space?

#144
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And such a wave function doesn't split just once but commonly many times. So, the one, poor photon as one simple wave function is soon in dozens of pieces all moving away from each other usually never to come together again. After a billion years, the pieces are still moving away from each other. > Then, presto, bingo, one part of that wave function enters our telescope and hits our detector. Then all the dozens of…

> No. The evolution of quantum systems is unitary and conserves energy. I'm guessing that all the tiny parts of the wave function basically can't interact and collapse so just continue on forever. I don't see a conflict with unitary or conservation of energy. But these tiny pieces of wave function should continue to play their role in general relativity, gravitation, etc. That's my wild guess. To pursue wild guesses,…

While a careful review of the foundations is valuable, and there's always a chance to find something others have missed, honestly it sounds like you're missing the physical intuitions a lot more than the maths. When I read what you wrote, thinking about unitarity came later; the immediate instinctive thought below even the level of language was "wrong, the wavefunction doesn't do that". I guess it depends what you want to do, but I'd suggest getting used to working with QM in the context of physical experiments, calculating energy levels and so on, and only looking to the foundations once you've got a better sense of how the formalism is supposed to work and what problems it's trying to solve.

Re: What Is Space?

#145
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about angular speed, though? My physics is very rusty where it comes to rotating things, and I don't recall dealing with rotation on relativity classes in school. Since you can derive momentary linear speed from angular speed and distance from centre of rotation, I assume there is no absolute angular speed either?

No, there is absolute angular speed. Which is kind of an odd thing that rotation is like that but linear motion is not. Take the Earth for example - you can't say how fast it's moving unless it's relative to something but you can say it's doing one rotation a day. Another odd possibly related thing is linear momentum can be any amount but angular momentum is quantized which may be why we have particles. In Maxwell's…

> There is absolute angular speed.

Not really. If you have two bodies in hydrostatic equilibrium arranged so that you can extend the rotational axis of one such that it overlaps completely with the rotational axis of the other, how do you come up with "absolute rotation"?

You could consider the case where one is exactly spherical and the other is highly oblate. While you're free to choose a system of coordinates which keeps the highly oblate one non-rotating with respect to the coordinates, you have to appeal to fictitious forces to explain the oblateness of the coordinate-stationary body and the exact spherical symmetry of the coordinate-rotating body. Physics typically takes a simpler form if you decide the spherical body should be non-rotating against a set of coordinates that covers both bodies. (On the other hand, if these are large bodies -- planets, for example -- and you can put a lab on the surface of each, you get the Special Relativistic form of physics for practically all possible experiments wholly contained within each lab).

However, a more typical case is that neither body is exactly spherically symmetrical, in which case you might want to appeal to the view of the motions of deep sky objects observable on each body. One might be ultra-Machian and say that "absolute rotation is determined by the movement of fixed stars", but really you probably should be more interested about whether you need to resort to pseudotensors in your write-down of local physical behaviours, i.e., rely upon the principle of covariance instead, and ignore arguments motivated by less-formal arguments (sometimes only allegedly) related to any number of things Mach said.

The principle of covariance only allows a picking-out of "absolute rotation" in specific types of universe, and that picking-out is not very useful in a universe like ours.

> angular momentum is quantized

Spin is quantized in the Standard Model. Although one can call spin an intrinsic angular momentum, it's not the same thing as the angular momentum of a rotating macroscopic body like a planet. In particular, intrinsic spin survives changes of coordinates, whereas rotation does not (as discussed above).

There is a (very) technical and quite beautiful overview of the difference here:

http://www.askamathematician.com/2011/10/q-what-is-spin-in-p...

Re: What Is Space?

#146

This continues to be one of my favorite questions. In high school we were creating a vacuum in a bell jar to do the 'drop a feather and drop a weight' experiment and my physics teacher asked it. "So if we didn't have our apparatus in there, and we sucked it dry, what would be in there?" It makes a great interview question because it helps identify people who have a hard time holding an unknown concept in their head a…

Can we stop using footnotes for the very next sentence?

Re: What Is Space?

#148
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. The evolution of quantum systems is unitary and conserves energy. I'm guessing that all the tiny parts of the wave function basically can't interact and collapse so just continue on forever. I don't see a conflict with unitary or conservation of energy. But these tiny pieces of wave function should continue to play their role in general relativity, gravitation, etc. That's my wild guess. To pursue wild guesses,…

While a careful review of the foundations is valuable, and there's always a chance to find something others have missed, honestly it sounds like you're missing the physical intuitions a lot more than the maths. When I read what you wrote, thinking about unitarity came later; the immediate instinctive thought below even the level of language was "wrong, the wavefunction doesn't do that". I guess it depends what you wa…

I know about unitary in math. Just what QM does with it I don't know yet!

I'm eager enough to further develop my intuitive understanding. My ugrad physics prof said I had "a good feeling for physics" -- that was after I blew away everyone else in his freshman physics class!! :-)

Yes, being careful can yield new results in old fields. I've published two papers that apparently did that, one paper in optimization and the Kuhn-Tucker conditions and one in mathematical statistics.

In physics I'm not really trying to publish tricky papers at the core of the foundations, but I do get the impression that quite a lot about QM is still a bit fuzzy to nearly everyone.

So, I'd like to clean that up, as much as I can, both intuitively and mathematically.

Going into the details about how to get approximations, etc. about the orbitals of the water molecule, likely relevant enough for a physics student, seems a bit of a detail I'm willing to skip over. And generally I'm willing enough to take the results of the more famous experiments at essentially face value although might try to differ on the explanations.

My ugrad physics prof pushed hard on the MM experiment, Young's double slit, and Fabry-Perot, and it's amazing how close those remain to challenging current topics.

Re: What Is Space?

#149
post #109
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't understand how the question "what is the purpose of X" can be anything but philosophical. Again, my guess is that this depends on how much we know. Or, there about has to be a purpose. And eventually as we learn more there should be some clues about what that purpose is. So I'm wondering if we know that much yet? A first little clue is the speed of light speed limit that so far seems to say that we are…

> Or, if there is no purpose, then this is one heck of a big show for nothing! It isn't really. The universe all falls out of a very few, very simple rules playing themselves out - and the more we study it the smaller and simpler that set of basic rules is. Physically it's pretty big, sure, but the Kolgomorov Complexity is actually pretty small, and that's the kind of measure you need to use when considering how good…

I like Kolmogorov a lot (father of modern probability) and have heard of his complexity but need to study that and see how it applies to physics.

Re: What Is Space?

#150
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, if there is no purpose, then this is one heck of a big show for nothing! It isn't really. The universe all falls out of a very few, very simple rules playing themselves out - and the more we study it the smaller and simpler that set of basic rules is. Physically it's pretty big, sure, but the Kolgomorov Complexity is actually pretty small, and that's the kind of measure you need to use when considering how good…

I like Kolmogorov a lot (father of modern probability) and have heard of his complexity but need to study that and see how it applies to physics.

Kolmogorov complexity isn't directly related to physics (and I would argue it also falls into philosophy in this case), but what GP was saying is that the complexity of the universe far exceeds the complexity of the laws that govern it. So really the laws of physics are very simple if you consider how complicated the systems they produce are.

You can fit the laws that govern the entirety of particle physics on a single page. Add another quarter-page for general relativity and you have all of the laws required to run our universe (on paper).

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