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Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

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Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#91

Post by ocdtrekkie »

nostromo wrote: post #84
quickben wrote: post #2

I'm under the impression that only EU slaps antitrust charges lately.

It seems political. The EU is taking on a lot of US companies with antitrust complaints but few EU companies.

This is an excellent way to try and distract from the actual issues the EU has charged them with, and try to delegitimize the claims of one of the largest governments in the world because you like the company they're going after this week.

The EU has filed plenty of antitrust complaints against EU companies, but the reality is, particularly in the tech field, US monopolists are dominating. The fact that there are more US companies breaking the law, does not mean the EU filing more cases against US companies is political.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#92

Post by annexrichmond »

curun1r wrote: post #66
redm wrote: post #9

"Mr. Stoppelman feels he has no choice. Like a lot of small internet companies, Yelp lives in a world where one company, Google, accounts for an outsize share of its business, and could destroy it at any time." That sums it up for Yelp and many others, myself included. Combine that reality with the black box that Google is, in many ways, and you have an inaccessible behemoth who's decisions decide the fate of many. G…

> Mr. Stoppelman feels he has no choice. Like a lot of small internet companies, Yelp lives in a world where one company, Google, accounts for an outsize share of its business, and could destroy it at any time The same basic thing could be said for most of Yelp's customers. Many would prefer that Yelp not exist or not index them but are forced to buy expensive plans with Yelp to have some measure of control over thei…

> but are forced to buy expensive plans with Yelp to have some measure of control over their public profile

what evidence do you have to suggest that (a) business owners are forced to buy plans from Yelp (b) there's a strong correlation between business owners who don't pay Yelp and are not successful? I'm pretty sure these have been debunked[1] but if you have data I'd like to see it.

in spite of this, even if you personally believe Yelp has sketchy business practices, is unethical, etc. it does not follow that what Google is doing is OK. There are actually laws that attempt to stop what Google is doing but as far as I know, Yelp's not breaking any laws.

[1] http://people.hbs.edu/mluca/papers%20on%20ris/fakeittillyoum...

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#93

Post by tyingq »

timr wrote: post #68
parthdesai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Mr. Stoppelman feels he has no choice. Like a lot of small internet companies, Yelp lives in a world where one company, Google, accounts for an outsize share of its business, and could destroy it at any time." Ah the irony. Yelp is the same website that bullied small businesses to pay for positive reviews[1]. [1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/yelp-accused-of-bullying-bus...

"Ah the irony. Yelp is the same website that bullied small businesses to pay for positive reviews" No, Yelp is accused of this. Nobody has ever shown it to be true. (I can also tell you, as someone who worked there, that it definitely is not true, but you don't have to take my word for it. You just have to not confuse accusations with facts.)

I can see both being true. Assuming the sales staff are on commission, there's a strong possibility some asshattery happened.

Perhaps you didn't run into any unethical sales staff.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#94

Post by themacguffinman »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #41
nradov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Google services no longer have competition?

Google Search for a start. Youtube is effectively standing alone in the space. Google Maps is completely dominating the space (in particular there is nothing that replaces the Earth product or the parts of Earth in maps). Gmail is taking over the world over here. Most local mail solutions are irrelevant at this point and the only real alternative to gmail even intentionally is outlook now. Chrome effectively took out…

Right, but unless you are accusing Google of foul play, their market dominance is just evidence of the superior consumer value they provide. In other words, they are doing what is best for its customers.

The question of this thread is: did Google unfairly push out their competition. If you can't argue that, then this is just pointless Google hand wringing.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#95

Post by erk__ »

nradov wrote: post #49
cft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like it was impossible to start a car company after say 1920 due to the established players, it has become impossible to start and run a large consumer internet company where the primary function is information retrieval/search like in Yelp. If Google maps did not exist (with "Local Guides" now), Yelp's market cap could have been 5x of what it is. They were lucky that they started in 2004 when Google bombing was…

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic? Several car companies operating today were founded after 1920.

You are right it would be more precise to say after 1948. There is only one company in the 10 biggest companies that got founded after 48.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#96

Post by cakedoggie »

mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

Wow, what a childish attitude.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#97

Post by annexrichmond »

kailuowang wrote: post #45

I found that Yelp's reviews very unreliable. My business owner friends told me that they are constantly harassed by yelp's sales representatives to buy the right to "clean up" their reviews. I don't see how yelp can continue trash their brand like this and blaming Google for their low performance.

> I found that Yelp's reviews very unreliable.

followed by hearsay about your friends who told you about what a Yelp sales rep said.

How is this an argument for Google's business practices?

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#98

Post by putlake »

AznHisoka wrote: post #27
putlake wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. As a web publisher who depends on advertising for revenue and Google for traffic, things are getting more and more difficult. Google providing answers in the search box robs legitimate publishers of traffic. But the industry is so fragmented that a concerted legal action against Google is not possible. Since this is HN, I expect people are going to start chanting "Die you ad supported publishers or find a ne…

OK, so now that implicit contract changed and says Google can show that information above the organic search results. Given this, publishers do have a choice of blocking Google in their robots.txt. this is an implicit agreement (not explicit). the agreement changed. publishers still have a chance to respond... dont like it? block google! (its just 1 line in robots.txt) go rely on word of mouth, bing, ads and emailing…

Blocking Google via robots.txt isn't an option because Google has a monopoly. You're amputating the whole leg because of an infected toe. Instead of free samples at Costco you're giving away entire boxes and users love you for it because it's free. It's the producer who loses the revenue.

At what point do you draw the line? Is it OK if Google steals 1 line? How about a whole list of steps for how to do something? How about when Google takes an image from your page and puts it in its hero search result "answer box" but with a link to another site?

As a publisher, I feel the right solution is that the publisher decides the title and meta description -- which are the 2 things Google needs to show in their SERPs. If my title and description snippet are clickbaity or not good enough, other publishers can win. That's fine because publishers are competing on a level playing field.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#99

Post by x0x0 »

jimmywanger wrote: post #87
x0x0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on position. They treat CSRs like absolute shit -- see Talia Jane. Given a choice, I'd prefer not to work for companies that treat any employee like that.

I've read her article. ( https://medium.com/@taliajane/an-open-letter-to-my-ceo-fb73d... ) It really has nothing substantive to say except "I'm struggling, pay me more." She even points to several facts in her article. "She ended up leaving the company and moving east, somewhere the minimum wage could double as a living wage." "But boy did I not anticipate a decade and a half ago that a car and a credit card and an a…

If you want to support a company that pays employees $12.50/hour in sf, that's your choice. However, I don't support that, and the thing about employment at will is we can use how a potential employer treats employees to evaluate the employer.

> Neither are they responsible for paying you what you think is necessary for a comfortable life.

However, kindly don't misrepresent the contents of Talia's article and shift the goalposts from "comfortable life" to "remain housed and eat (and even see a doctor when necessary)." Because she's asking for the bare minimums, not a comfortable life.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#100

Post by IncRnd »

benchaney wrote: post #24
falsedan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point was, you can choose not to use Yelp and your life will fine and dandy; not so much with google.

The opposite is actually true. If you are being slandered on yelp you cannot just choose for it to end. On the other hand you can use another search engine or advertising firm without any problems.

I'd refine that just a little. The users of Google are the advertisers. The people who search with Google are the product.
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