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Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#61

Post by bogomipz »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #26
friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user. You don't have to ride roughshod over regulations and worker protections to be innovative and thriving.

>"There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user"

Could you say what those are? I agree you don't need to ride roughshod on regulations to be innovative.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#62

Post by bogomipz »

eisa01 wrote: post #21
Shivetya wrote: post #2

so can anyone speak to what it entails to gain a taxi license? is this a burdensome requirement on those who want to drive? I have no issue with requiring specific insurance as anyone driving for any ride share service is just risking too much without proper coverage. in the US far too much occupational regulation/licensing only serves now to protect current providers effectively locking out or deterring competition.

Most places restrict the number of available licenses However, The EFTA surveillance authority is looking into if Norway is in breach of EU rules by restricting taxi licenses, so it could be opened up. We are governed by the same laws as the EU Uber should comply with rules, but we really need Uber and similar services I was in Paris and Barcelona last week: In Paris I could easily take an Uber and everything was a b…

>"and the drivers charged me in NOK without asking, against MasterCard rules"

What is NOK?

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#63

Post by alkonaut »

greglindahl wrote: post #15
collyw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is Uber not a taxi service? How do you feel it differs to the end user?

To any New Yorker, Uber is a black car service... you can't hail an Uber on the street. And the current compromise between Uber and NYC is that Uber cars are licensed exactly like black cars. Done. (You actually refer to the street hail thing in one of your other comments, surprised you didn't mention that here.)

Just to straighten out the terminology: Let's say "Taxi" (at least for the context of this discussion) is a car that takes someone somewhere the passenger decides, for money.

It doesn't matter whether you hail it on the street or book it elsewhere. Taxi is a paid car. By that definition in NYC all black cars, yellow cabs, Ubers etc are Taxis.

That weird US regional laws have made a whole family of terms for this simple service just makes this discussion muddy (as you might have noticed).

What this news article is about and what is already obvious is that Uber is Taxi because they take people places for money.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#64

Post by myhrvold »

bogomipz wrote: post #62
eisa01 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most places restrict the number of available licenses However, The EFTA surveillance authority is looking into if Norway is in breach of EU rules by restricting taxi licenses, so it could be opened up. We are governed by the same laws as the EU Uber should comply with rules, but we really need Uber and similar services I was in Paris and Barcelona last week: In Paris I could easily take an Uber and everything was a b…

>"and the drivers charged me in NOK without asking, against MasterCard rules" What is NOK?

Norway's currency, the krone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_krone (They are not on the Euro.)

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#65

Post by bogomipz »

orf wrote: post #19
Shivetya wrote: post #2

so can anyone speak to what it entails to gain a taxi license? is this a burdensome requirement on those who want to drive? I have no issue with requiring specific insurance as anyone driving for any ride share service is just risking too much without proper coverage. in the US far too much occupational regulation/licensing only serves now to protect current providers effectively locking out or deterring competition.

In London they have to pass a test called "the knowledge"[1]. It's the "hardest taxi test in the world" and quite impressive. It ensures taxi drivers actually know what they are doing and where they are going, not just blindly following their GPS. > To become an All-London taxi driver or Green badge holder you need to master no fewer than 320 basic routes, all of the 25,000 streets that are scattered within the basic…

>"In London they have to pass a test called "the knowledge"[1]. It's the "hardest taxi test in the world" and quite impressive. It ensures taxi drivers actually know what they are doing and where they are going, not just blindly following their GPS."

I am familiar with "the knowledge" and while I think it's indeed impressive and I frankly I prefer taxis drivers that have local knowledge however is this still practical in 2017?

I am asking sincerely. Certainly "the knowledge" doesn't include local traffic conditions a la Waze.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#66

Post by bogomipz »

myhrvold wrote: post #64
bogomipz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"and the drivers charged me in NOK without asking, against MasterCard rules" What is NOK?

Norway's currency, the krone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_krone (They are not on the Euro.)

Sure, the Kroner, I guess I was confused you are referring to Paris and Barcelona being a breeze in the sentence before.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#67

Post by orf »

bogomipz wrote: post #65
orf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In London they have to pass a test called "the knowledge"[1]. It's the "hardest taxi test in the world" and quite impressive. It ensures taxi drivers actually know what they are doing and where they are going, not just blindly following their GPS. > To become an All-London taxi driver or Green badge holder you need to master no fewer than 320 basic routes, all of the 25,000 streets that are scattered within the basic…

>"In London they have to pass a test called "the knowledge"[1]. It's the "hardest taxi test in the world" and quite impressive. It ensures taxi drivers actually know what they are doing and where they are going, not just blindly following their GPS." I am familiar with "the knowledge" and while I think it's indeed impressive and I frankly I prefer taxis drivers that have local knowledge however is this still practica…

> I am asking sincerely. Certainly "the knowledge" doesn't include local traffic conditions a la Waze.

Experience provides that, I guess. Waze is perhaps better in US grid style systems with lots of large, laid out roads but In London the streets are tiny and the traffic patterns very different. I think the traffic follows in a predictable ebb and flow pattern based on the week day and time, which you can pick up easily enough if you spend all day in it.

I've seen the Google maps traffic display in London and it's not terribly useful: all red everywhere at peak times, yellow/green off-peak.

It's anecdotal, but in London every taxi experience has been superior from a directions point of view. Uber sometimes gives drivers crazy directions that make no sense and the drivers just go along with it. That being said, Uber is a fair bit cheaper so it's all a trade off I guess.

Fankly, if I've got money I don't mind spending it on a black cab, I see it similar to supporting local businesses over buying off Amazon - a good idea for smaller purchases, but the discounts on larger items are often too good to turn down.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#68

Post by bogomipz »

orf wrote: post #67
bogomipz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"In London they have to pass a test called "the knowledge"[1]. It's the "hardest taxi test in the world" and quite impressive. It ensures taxi drivers actually know what they are doing and where they are going, not just blindly following their GPS." I am familiar with "the knowledge" and while I think it's indeed impressive and I frankly I prefer taxis drivers that have local knowledge however is this still practica…

> I am asking sincerely. Certainly "the knowledge" doesn't include local traffic conditions a la Waze. Experience provides that, I guess. Waze is perhaps better in US grid style systems with lots of large, laid out roads but In London the streets are tiny and the traffic patterns very different. I think the traffic follows in a predictable ebb and flow pattern based on the week day and time, which you can pick up eas…

Sure, I am quite familiar with the narrow Victorian streets in London and agree that that knowledge is certainly and asset but having knowledge of those doesn't tell me if there's road work or an accident on them until it's too late. That's all I meant.

I agree that the level of professionalism of a London cabbie provides a comfortable experience. Certainly to to that of a Yellow cab driver in NYC. And this is one of those issues for me. Taxi drivers in NYC have no regard for blocking an intersections, blocking cross walks, running red lights and blowing the horn incessantly. The Uber/Lyft driver on the other hand seems to do these quite rarely. It's seems to be a much more considerate experience for both the passengers and pedestrians. I do certainly see the danger though if cities losing their cabs and Ubert/Lyft just becoming the new entrenched player.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#69

Post by fiatjaf »

izacus wrote: post #24
fiatjaf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So use taxi, if you like it so much. Keeping people "safe" against their will and with money from their own pockets is evil, to say the least.

EU countries are democratic. It's not against people's will.

That is the craziest statement I've ever read.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#70

Post by ueroc »

bogomipz wrote: post #61
pilsetnieks wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user. You don't have to ride roughshod over regulations and worker protections to be innovative and thriving.

>"There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user" Could you say what those are? I agree you don't need to ride roughshod on regulations to be innovative.

http://tech.eu/features/2501/european-transportation-startup...

Of course many taxi companies will have their own apps.

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