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Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#31

Post by friedman23 »

celticninja wrote: post #18
friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

It's not anti American though, it just so happens that US firms are the first of these types of companies. The rulings that are set apply to all companies equally so Chinese and European firms are bound by the same rules.

My comment was less about this specific ruling and more about the trend. In the US, uber was practically illegal just like Europe. The US made it legal (or looked the other way) while Europe (and much of the rest of the world) decided to clamp down on the service with regulations without ever reflecting on whether the laws themselves were beneficial in the first place.

At least in the US, much of the fear mongering over the possible outcomes of Uber drivers not being properly licensed never came to pass.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#32

Post by izacus »

friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

I think we'll be fine without "innovation" that's innovate exclusively by breaking basic safety and labour laws.

Taxi services across EU (at least in my experience) are usually of significanly better quality than those in US. Well, at least I've yet to meet a cab smelling of piss and shit as opposed to SF.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#33

Post by celticninja »

rickpmg wrote: post #17
k-mcgrady wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the country probably but it can include things like: - Holding a regular driving license for n years - First aid training - Taxi specific theory/practical driving test - Passing extra vehicle tests (I know where I'm from they used to require taxis to be fitted with small fire extinguishers for example). - Background check

I heard in London that cabbies also have to know all sorts of landmarks/touristy types of attractions by heart.

It's called "the knowledge" and not only do they need to know 20,000 landmarks (things like The Royal Institution of British Architects building, which is not a very touristy landmark at all) they also need to know 20,000 streets and the best route between them. On their test they have to describe a route across London between 2 landmarks and name every road, roundabout, where they should be in the road when there are multiple lanes, one way restrictions and it has to be perfect. It's an incredibly difficult test to pass.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#34

Post by imrehg »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #26
friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user. You don't have to ride roughshod over regulations and worker protections to be innovative and thriving.

I'd be curious to know any examples that really bring the same benefits (usability and features mostly, less about the price), I was looking for them, and couldn't find any (e.g. in London at the moment). Otherwise it's just hand waving argument...

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#35

Post by [deleted] »

friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

[deleted]

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#36

Post by ForHackernews »

orf wrote: post #19
Shivetya wrote: post #2

so can anyone speak to what it entails to gain a taxi license? is this a burdensome requirement on those who want to drive? I have no issue with requiring specific insurance as anyone driving for any ride share service is just risking too much without proper coverage. in the US far too much occupational regulation/licensing only serves now to protect current providers effectively locking out or deterring competition.

In London they have to pass a test called "the knowledge"[1]. It's the "hardest taxi test in the world" and quite impressive. It ensures taxi drivers actually know what they are doing and where they are going, not just blindly following their GPS. > To become an All-London taxi driver or Green badge holder you need to master no fewer than 320 basic routes, all of the 25,000 streets that are scattered within the basic…

Not just the hardest taxi test, it's arguably the hardest test of any kind:

> If anything, this description understates the case. The six-mile radius from Charing Cross, the putative center-point of London marked by an equestrian statue of King Charles I, takes in some 25,000 streets. London cabbies need to know all of those streets, and how to drive them — the direction they run, which are one-way, which are dead ends, where to enter and exit traffic circles, and so on. But cabbies also need to know everything on the streets. Examiners may ask a would-be cabbie to identify the location of any restaurant in London. Any pub, any shop, any landmark, no matter how small or obscure — all are fair game. Test-takers have been asked to name the whereabouts of flower stands, of laundromats, of commemorative plaques. One taxi driver told me that he was asked the location of a statue, just a foot tall, depicting two mice sharing a piece of cheese. It’s on the facade of a building in Philpot Lane, on the corner of Eastcheap, not far from London Bridge.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/t-magazine/london-taxi-te...

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#37

Post by celticninja »

fiatjaf wrote: post #11
Shivetya wrote: post #2

so can anyone speak to what it entails to gain a taxi license? is this a burdensome requirement on those who want to drive? I have no issue with requiring specific insurance as anyone driving for any ride share service is just risking too much without proper coverage. in the US far too much occupational regulation/licensing only serves now to protect current providers effectively locking out or deterring competition.

Burdensome? Taxi licenses are limited so taxi drivers can keep their cartel against the entry of competitors. It is impossible unless you're politically connected. That's why Uber is so great: it is destroying this stupidity.

In the US perhaps, the medallion system there almost guarantees that new entrants are priced out of the market.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#38

Post by toomuchtodo »

ballenf wrote: post #23
celticninja wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not anti American though, it just so happens that US firms are the first of these types of companies. The rulings that are set apply to all companies equally so Chinese and European firms are bound by the same rules.

True: it's just anti-progress or at least anti-anything-that-doesn't-fit-a-hundred-plus-year-old-notion-of-how-things-should-work.

anti-worker, anti-customer, anti-morals. Let Uber die by a thousand cuts.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#39

Post by celticninja »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #4
Piccollo wrote: post #3

Hurray.

Unless you own taxi medallions, I don't really see much cause for celebration. Unnecessary regulation is unnecessary. Edit: due to aggressive rate limiting on HN's part, I'm not able to respond to those who have chosen to reply rather than downvote. What I'd say in such a reply is this: despite all of the advantages of regulated taxi services that people are citing, rideshare services are still winning in the marketp…

Medallions are a US thing. In the EU generally it is driving and background checks that are required, not the payment of an arbitrary sum to some regulatory body.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#40

Post by kochthesecond »

friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

I am inclined to agree with you, but most of EU countries had working alternatives to Uber, albeit more local, that DO follow the law.

It seems like the state of taxi services in the US somehow self regulated out competition?

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