Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#21

Post by eisa01 » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:53 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #2

so can anyone speak to what it entails to gain a taxi license? is this a burdensome requirement on those who want to drive? I have no issue with requiring specific insurance as anyone driving for any ride share service is just risking too much without proper coverage. in the US far too much occupational regulation/licensing only serves now to protect current providers effectively locking out or deterring competition.

Most places restrict the number of available licenses

However, The EFTA surveillance authority is looking into if Norway is in breach of EU rules by restricting taxi licenses, so it could be opened up. We are governed by the same laws as the EU

Uber should comply with rules, but we really need Uber and similar services

I was in Paris and Barcelona last week: In Paris I could easily take an Uber and everything was a breeze In Barcelona I had to take taxis. I paid with credit card, and the drivers charged me in NOK without asking, against MasterCard rules. I even said I wanted to pay in EUR at one occasion

To submit a complaint I had to fill in a paper form, and post it by mail with the original receipts. The receipts from the credit card terminal don't even have the taxi information as in Norway, so not sure they can do anything either.

It's frankly ridiculous

Taxi drivers in Barcelona was even on strike to protest against Cabify and Uber that want to compete on equal terms, while they are protected through draconian systems that have no accountability if you have a problem

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#22

Post by celticninja » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

gsnedders wrote: post #6

Shivetya wrote: post #2

so can anyone speak to what it entails to gain a taxi license? is this a burdensome requirement on those who want to drive? I have no issue with requiring specific insurance as anyone driving for any ride share service is just risking too much without proper coverage. in the US far too much occupational regulation/licensing only serves now to protect current providers effectively locking out or deterring competition.

Depends massively between EU states. Some it's relatively easy [edit: to operate as a "taxi" in a general sense, rather than the legal term], such as in the UK (pass a prolonged driving test, have commercial insurance, review of any criminal record as to whether they pose a threat to the public, though there's some variety between councils who are the licensing body especially when it comes to vehicles and equipment)…

Although it is not entirely that easy in the UK, if you want to be a London black can driver then it is very difficult, as well as what you already mentioned there is also "the knowledge" exam that must be passed. Which is quite possibly one of the toughest assignments I have ever witnessed.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#23

Post by ballenf » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #18

friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

It's not anti American though, it just so happens that US firms are the first of these types of companies. The rulings that are set apply to all companies equally so Chinese and European firms are bound by the same rules.

True: it's just anti-progress or at least anti-anything-that-doesn't-fit-a-hundred-plus-year-old-notion-of-how-things-should-work.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#24

Post by izacus » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

fiatjaf wrote: post #16

k-mcgrady wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi drivers in my European country are subject to some requirements that make a lot of sense and help keep people safe. I've user Uber a lot and it's great but anything to up the quality of drivers is good. I've been down one way streets multiple times in Uber's, I've been in multiple near-misses, I've never had these things happen to me in taxi's. Not all taxi drivers are great either but the even the bad ones are…

So use taxi, if you like it so much. Keeping people "safe" against their will and with money from their own pockets is evil, to say the least.

EU countries are democratic. It's not against people's will.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#25

Post by ForHackernews » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

rickpmg wrote: post #17

k-mcgrady wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the country probably but it can include things like: - Holding a regular driving license for n years - First aid training - Taxi specific theory/practical driving test - Passing extra vehicle tests (I know where I'm from they used to require taxis to be fitted with small fire extinguishers for example). - Background check

I heard in London that cabbies also have to know all sorts of landmarks/touristy types of attractions by heart.

The Knowledge: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/t-magazine/london-taxi-te...

"It has been called the hardest test, of any kind, in the world. Its rigors have been likened to those required to earn a degree in law or medicine. It is without question a unique intellectual, psychological and physical ordeal, demanding unnumbered thousands of hours of immersive study, as would-be cabbies undertake the task of committing to memory the entirety of London, and demonstrating that mastery through a progressively more difficult sequence of oral examinations — a process which, on average, takes four years to complete, and for some, much longer than that."

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#26

Post by pilsetnieks » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

There are Uber-like services in Europe that somehow still manage to comply with the law, while bringing the same benefits to the end user. You don't have to ride roughshod over regulations and worker protections to be innovative and thriving.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#27

Post by kuschku » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:56 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #2

so can anyone speak to what it entails to gain a taxi license? is this a burdensome requirement on those who want to drive? I have no issue with requiring specific insurance as anyone driving for any ride share service is just risking too much without proper coverage. in the US far too much occupational regulation/licensing only serves now to protect current providers effectively locking out or deterring competition.

In most parts of Germany, there’s two types of such licenses.

1. Car-With-Driver-For-Hire. This is what uber falls into. You need a drivers license that allows you to transport people, and insurance for the car that covers your commercial driving.

2. Taxi. This is what traditional taxis are, it allows you to pick up people from the street, but there are maximum rates set by the city, you need to navigate without GPS, etc. These are also restricted by amount.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#28

Post by collyw » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:58 PM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #15

collyw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is Uber not a taxi service? How do you feel it differs to the end user?

To any New Yorker, Uber is a black car service... you can't hail an Uber on the street. And the current compromise between Uber and NYC is that Uber cars are licensed exactly like black cars. Done. (You actually refer to the street hail thing in one of your other comments, surprised you didn't mention that here.)

Sounds like what we have in the UK as "minicabs" as opposed to "black cabs" that you can hail on the street. Both are considered taxis.

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#29

Post by Oletros » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:58 PM UTC

friedman23 wrote: post #13

What is the saying, "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"? As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies they will further prevent any innovative businesses from growing and thriving in Europe. Also before you respond, I am really not interested in legalist arguments, especially when the laws themselves were designed by and for entrenched interests. It's been 17 years since th…

> As Europe continues to add laws and regulations targeted at American tech companies

Any example of those laws and regulations?

Re: Uber Is Dealt a Fresh Blow in European Legal Case

#30

Post by kuschku » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 9:58 PM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #15

collyw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is Uber not a taxi service? How do you feel it differs to the end user?

To any New Yorker, Uber is a black car service... you can't hail an Uber on the street. And the current compromise between Uber and NYC is that Uber cars are licensed exactly like black cars. Done. (You actually refer to the street hail thing in one of your other comments, surprised you didn't mention that here.)

Same in Germany, but Uber wanted to be licensed like a web service, not like a black car service, and argued that instead each driver is operating a black car service, and they should be responsible for insurance.