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What Is Space?

nautil.us

91–100 of 155 posts

Re: What Is Space?

#91
post #56

One of the ones that gets me and may be central to space is the central idea in the Young's double slit experiment, the Michelson-Morley interferometer, the Fabry-Perot interferometer, etc. Indeed, the night I was studying for my final in optics and radiography, I thought of this stuff and never really studied for the exam! So, just shine a light through a beam splitter. So, ballpark half of the light continues on es…

Or perhaps the wave functions "gains a dimension" in that it spreads evenly (or weighed) in all of space, thus making it that a photon is "almost everywhere" until detection.

Re: What Is Space?

#92
"But if you use a rigid ruler, all of its atoms would hold on to one another tightly (with electromagnetic forces), and the ruler would stay the same length, allowing you to notice that more space was created."

This is the part that I don't really understand - how does the electromagnetic force "know" the true distance?

Basically, there is an equation that determines the strength of the field that depends on the distance from the centre of the particle, or rather the "particle" creates a ripple in the field. The ripple still has a length though.

So, the question then becomes - somehow the fact that the field has a bigger differential between two spots in space, keeps from more "space" appearing between those two spots.

Yet where the field is zero (or whatever the lowest energy value is) more space can be created within the field. So, it seems that there is a "space field" and a number of other fields, that interact with each other and can influence the properties of each other.

This kind of makes sense, essentially if the "space field" can have values attached to it, that in effect would determine "distance" from our perspective, then the interactions with other fields can influence the change in distances.

IANAP, so if you are, would this be a correct line of thinking?

Re: What Is Space?

#93
If you are really serious about this question then you would also consider what mathematicians have to say about "space". Unfortunately, this is pretty much the whole of mathematics, but I think special attention should be given to the duality between geometry and algebra. This stuff goes back to Descarte. For example, you can consider the points equidistant from a specific point, which gives a circle. Or you can consider the algebraic expression X^2+Y^2=1. Both of these viewpoints are in a sense, two sides of the same coin. What is that coin? Deep answers can be found when you start doing funky things like change your definition of numbers, to say, a finite field. Even just having two numbers 0 and 1 is quite interesting to consider. What is the corresponding geometry? Or, more confusing still, let's drop the requirement that xy = yx (commutativity). Now what are the non-commutative geometries on the other side of the coin?

Considering the wide variety of these apparently fanciful ideas that have made their way into theoretical physics fills me with wonder. I wonder if the authors of the article mention any of this stuff in their book.

Re: What Is Space?

#94
post #56

One of the ones that gets me and may be central to space is the central idea in the Young's double slit experiment, the Michelson-Morley interferometer, the Fabry-Perot interferometer, etc. Indeed, the night I was studying for my final in optics and radiography, I thought of this stuff and never really studied for the exam! So, just shine a light through a beam splitter. So, ballpark half of the light continues on es…

> And such a wave function doesn't split just once but commonly many times. So, the one, poor photon as one simple wave function is soon in dozens of pieces all moving away from each other usually never to come together again. After a billion years, the pieces are still moving away from each other.

> Then, presto, bingo, one part of that wave function enters our telescope and hits our detector. Then all the dozens of pieces of that wave function, scattered across a billion light years, have to disappear, instantly, since with two telescopes we can never get two detections from the one photon.

> Well, that's tough to believe.

There are a dozen different possibilities for what the photon has done - a dozen different universes, if you like. As long as the photon never interacts with anything else, this bundle of a dozen universes can act much the same as a single universe. Certainly if you're just looking at a telescope, all dozen versions of that telescope are behaving the same, so they behave like a single unified instance.

When the photon hits the telescope in one universe, the perspective shifts: the telescope is now "inside" the 12-way split, either the photon went one way and the telescope recorded it or the photon went another way and the telescope didn't. And when we look into the telescope, we again shift from looking at the superposition from outside to being part of the superposition on the inside.

Our language isn't great for talking about this, because it's not a binary is/isn't thing - entanglement is a continuous phenomenon. If you imagine just two photons each in one of two states, then it's easy enough to imagine: photon A is in a superposition of states 0 and 1, photon B is in an independent superposition of states 0 and 1 - each photon has two possible "local universes", but because they're distant and noncommunicating, to each one the other looks like it's in a superposition. And it's easy enough to imagine: photon A is in a superposition of states 0 and 1, photon B is in a superposition of states 0 and 1, but they're entangled such that we know the sum is 1 - here there are two possible "global universes", and we see a superposition between them, but ecah particle knows the other is in the same universe - if A is an 0 then it knows B is a 1 and vice versa. The part that's hardest to imagine is that it's also possible to be somewhere in between these two states: A and B can be partially entangled such that e.g. there's a 75% chance that the sum is 1.

> So, maybe the universe is filled with tiny pieces of wave functions condemned to go on forever. Maybe that's the dark matter?

No. The evolution of quantum systems is unitary and conserves energy.

Re: What Is Space?

#95

I'm simultaneously glad that someone's writing articles about these things and dismayed that too many people will read this and believe they understand astrophysics without having philosophized about it on their own. Analogies like "space goo" are useful but can be a double-edged sword(seems the author recognizes this) that can mislead the public in much the same way that the holographic universe theory leads the pub…

Lack of philosophizing is less of an issue than ignorance of the physics, even - especially - among philosophers. There ought to be a rule against speculating on the nature of reality in the context of quantum physics if you haven't completed the exercises in Nielsen and Chuang.

Re: What Is Space?

#96
post #39
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are no absolute reference frames. only relative ones! however, at least there is a fixed relationship between reference frames they all must obey with regards to the speed of light.

Just thinking out loud here. If the speed of light is absolute (it's not relative right? it doesn't change in any reference frame?), then could the speed of light be considered the base axis, or to continue the metaphor in the parent comment, that the speed of light is the 'outside the car'? Also, doesn't time 'stop' when you are at C, so that the whole idea of space (speed * time) sort of collapses?

> If the speed of light is absolute (it's not relative right? it doesn't change in any reference frame?), then could the speed of light be considered the base axis, or to continue the metaphor in the parent comment, that the speed of light is the 'outside the car'?

The speed of light is the same in any (inertial) reference frame. But you can't use it as a reference to compare other speeds against, because there are more degrees of freedom than you might think: a speed is calculated from both a distance and a time. So you and I could be looking at an asteroid and you say it's stationary and I say it's going half the speed of light, and we'd both be right, even though we both agreed what the speed of light was. Special relativity works like this.

> Also, doesn't time 'stop' when you are at C, so that the whole idea of space (speed * time) sort of collapses?

If you naively plug zeroes and infinities into the equations you won't get good answers, but if you're careful and work with limits then everything works right. What specifically were you asking about when going at C?

Re: What Is Space?

#97
post #22

Do we know enough yet to have some good guesses about (1) the purpose of the universe, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14570170 (2) the end of the universe, (A) big expansion and cool down to nothing, (B) no more expansion and cool down to nothing, (C) contraction back to another big bang, (D) something else very different?

>the purpose of the universe...

That's probably an ill-defined question in the same way that asking about the purpose of a mountain is ill-defined.

Re: What Is Space?

#99
post #92

"But if you use a rigid ruler, all of its atoms would hold on to one another tightly (with electromagnetic forces), and the ruler would stay the same length, allowing you to notice that more space was created." This is the part that I don't really understand - how does the electromagnetic force "know" the true distance? Basically, there is an equation that determines the strength of the field that depends on the dist…

The electromagnetic force does not know the true distance, here the ruler is more of a theoretical construct.

Perhaps it helps, if you think about it as moving the underlying coordinates vs moving the particle. (There is no difference between the two pictures in the theory only the relation between coordinates and atoms appear. Sort of, at least.) So, if you apply a force to an atom, that means that the second derivative of its position changes. On the other hand, if we imagine for a moment that the atom is stationary and the coordinates change, then the second derivative of its position will change and it will therefore feel a force, gravity.

Re: What Is Space?

#100
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still relative, though. You can't know your absolute speed, unless you are a photon and speed has no meaning to you at all.

I think it's more that you have no absolute speed...? I.e. it's an ill-defined concept. Of course we often talk about speed as if it's absolute, but as you point out it's actually always relative to some assumed background, e.g. the ground. (It's also impossible to measure speed without some sort of external reference.)

What about angular speed, though? My physics is very rusty where it comes to rotating things, and I don't recall dealing with rotation on relativity classes in school. Since you can derive momentary linear speed from angular speed and distance from centre of rotation, I assume there is no absolute angular speed either?
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