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What Is Space?

nautil.us

61–70 of 155 posts

Re: What Is Space?

#61
post #59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't understand how the question "what is the purpose of X" can be anything but philosophical. Science is primarily concerned with creating models of reality and testing the predictive power of those models. The "purpose" of something is not really a meaningful concept in that context. ... unless by "purpose" you mean cause? As in, what caused our universe to exist? That is also not really a meaningful questio…

> But I don't understand how the question "what is the purpose of X" can be anything but philosophical. Again, my guess is that this depends on how much we know. Or, there about has to be a purpose. And eventually as we learn more there should be some clues about what that purpose is. So I'm wondering if we know that much yet? A first little clue is the speed of light speed limit that so far seems to say that we are…

> Or, there about has to be a purpose.

Why does there have to be a purpose? The rest of your post is discussing philosophy, but I'll indulge anyway.

> A first little clue is the speed of light speed limit that so far seems to say that we are quite isolated from the rest of the universe. So, somehow having us isolated was deliberate.

What makes you think it was deliberate? The derivation of the speed of light comes directly from Maxwell's equations (which just describe how electric and magnetic fields interact).

Relativity further extends that idea by "simply" noticing that the propagation of light can only work if the waves travel at the speed of light relative to the observer. Thus all light must be travelling at the same speed no matter the speed of the observer, which gives you the entirety of special relativity (that predicts that no information can propagate faster than the speed of light).

I'm not sure which part of the above you could claim is deliberate. We live in a local universe (it takes time for information to travel) and thus light must have a speed. It doesn't actually matter what the speed of light is, the same derivation would apply as long as the speed is finite. Are you saying that the fact that our universe is local is deliberate?

> Then there's the 3 K background radiation. That's one heck of a clue. What might be the reason for giving us such data?

What makes you think it's data? It's literally just the echo of the big bang and comes from the random thermal motion in the "early days" of the big bang. The reason it's 3K is that it has been cooling since the big bang and that's the temperature it happens to be today. If it were any other temperature, would that also be a clue?

> There's the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. [...] We are stopped at that level by some dice rolling.

Quantum mechanics isn't dice rolling. It is true that there cannot be a local hidden-variables theory of QM, but QM still has incredible predictive power when discussing the probabilities of experiments. It is possible in the future that a non-probabilistic view of QM will emerge, it just cannot be both hidden-variables and local.

> So, what the heck is the purpose of us being here, our existing? That is, we're the most special and amazing thing we know of in the universe.

If ants could think, they would probably think they're the most amazing thing they know of in the universe. The only reason we think we're so amazing is because we have no competitor to compare to.

> Or, if there is no purpose, then this is one heck of a big show for nothing!

I don't think that life has an intrinsic purpose. In particular, it personally feels very selfish to claim that my existence is somehow meaningful to something as enormous as the universe. It just feels like unjustified hubris.

Re: What Is Space?

#63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have it both ways. I'd probably say something like "That's not my field of expertise, though if you'd like me to speculate I'd be glad to."

The point is I don't see how speculation about things you know nothing about is supposed to be an accurate gauge of a persons inate intelligence.

What if I put it this way.

Do you think speculation on things that are an inferential step[1](or a couple of steps) away from things you currently know could be a gauge of a person's innate intelligence?

Intelligence is required to make inferences. Assuming a common starting ground, a person who could make the most logical inferences from it to explain a result would suggest that he's smarter. I do not claim to say a person who makes 10 good points is less smart than someone who makes 11 good points. But he surely you can agree that a person who is able to make 0 inferences is likelier to be less intelligent than someone who makes a hundred.

[1] Where my idea of inferential step is taken from - http://lesswrong.com/lw/kg/expecting_short_inferential_dista...

Re: What Is Space?

#64
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind elaborating? Or pointing me in the direction of material that explains the space goo issue. thx

The biggest issue I see with the goo metaphor, is that it seems to suggest some sort of stationary ether that we move through as we move through space. That is to say, the mathaphor suggests that it makes sense to differentiate between stationary objects and moving objects in an objective sense. However, the core insight of relativity is that there is no such distinction.

I'm reading the whole book right now and the chapter after the one from the article is about time and goes more into spacetime according to relativity.

So far it seems to me that they sometimes provide an oversimplified analogy which they revise in a later chapter.

Re: What Is Space?

#65
post #8

How fast are you really going? One of the things I've thought about is relatively. Consider a toddler strapped to his car seat in a luxurious BMW cocoon while his father speeds down the autobahn at 200km/h. He calmy drinks from his sippy cup. You're in a passenger jet above him going 700km/hr. You're going 500km/hr faster than him. But how fast are you really going? Consider that the Earth is spinning around the sun…

We generally give Albert Einstein credit for providing a definitive answer to this question, and we call it the Theory of Special Relativity. Here, you might like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feBT0Anpg4A

It's still relative, though. You can't know your absolute speed, unless you are a photon and speed has no meaning to you at all.

Re: What Is Space?

#66

Some related questions that I don't know where, or how, to ask: - Is there a “quantum” of space? Where/how is location stored? - If electromagnetic repulsion is what makes matter “take space”, and if virtually all macroscopic phenomena are governed by electromagnetism and gravity, then could this reality be said to be “gravelectromagnetic”, and might there be other “dimensions” governed by other forces, like “cones”…

- The Planck units [0] are generally associated with the attempt to quantize space and time. - Macroscopic phenomena are in turn governed by microscopic phenomena, where the strong and weak forces dominate, so I would say our dimension is equally governed by those. At high energies we know the electromagnetic and weak forces combine into the "electroweak" force, and it is commonly hypothesized that at even higher ene…

From my understanding (just a Quantum Physics I class, I could be wrong here) the Planck units quantize space or time to the extent that they define the smallest thing we can practically measure due to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, but they do not preclude that things can actually be smaller than that. That is, something like length or time can be continuous, but our measurements can only ever be discrete multiples of the corresponding Planck constants.

For example, a really small object can have a length smaller than the Planck length, but we wouldn't truly know how long it was because the Planck length acts as a fundamental limit on the precision/granularity of our measuring instruments.

Re: What Is Space?

#67
post #63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is I don't see how speculation about things you know nothing about is supposed to be an accurate gauge of a persons inate intelligence.

What if I put it this way. Do you think speculation on things that are an inferential step[1](or a couple of steps) away from things you currently know could be a gauge of a person's innate intelligence? Intelligence is required to make inferences. Assuming a common starting ground, a person who could make the most logical inferences from it to explain a result would suggest that he's smarter. I do not claim to say a…

> Do you think speculation on things that are an inferential step[1](or a couple of steps) away from things you currently know could be a gauge of a person's innate intelligence?

No, I do not. It introduces a large capacity for things to go wrong, and it is very difficult for the interviewer to separate themselves from process. Speculative development is a road marked by dozens or hundreds of failed efforts before you hit on success. Either the interviewee happens to hit upon one of the few "correct" answers in the time available -- password guessing -- or some tolerance of wrong answers is to be accepted. But it is quite difficult to differentiate bad speculation from fruitless speculation, in a way that usefully differentiates candidates based on capability.

Re: What Is Space?

#68
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - Douglas Adams

Re: What Is Space?

#69
post #68

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - Douglas Adams

"At some point in the future, we’re going to look back and say how did we do it without space?" - Donald Trump

Re: What Is Space?

#70

Some related questions that I don't know where, or how, to ask: - Is there a “quantum” of space? Where/how is location stored? - If electromagnetic repulsion is what makes matter “take space”, and if virtually all macroscopic phenomena are governed by electromagnetism and gravity, then could this reality be said to be “gravelectromagnetic”, and might there be other “dimensions” governed by other forces, like “cones”…

Could gravity be the result of space trying to deflate/return to the pre-Big Bang singularity, kind of like pulling magnets apart? i.e. is gravity the “opposite” of, or a reaction to, “space?” I may be off the mark with what you believe, but just in case: It's a common misconception that the big bang originated at a specific point. The big bang seems to have happened everywhere simultaneously, so it wouldn't be true…

Holy shit, the Big Bang happened everywhere simultaneously because the Big Bang brought quantum fields into existence. Wow. I get it now.

As a non-physicist, wording it like that made a lot that I didn't understand suddenly click.

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