If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.
When they say no and they persist, it is.
Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
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Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#22What a terrible story. I'm sorry she had to go through that and appreciate her sharing it. I'm curious about the legal aspect of it. "Sexual assault" is a crime, right? The worst repercussions I hear from these stories are maybe a resignation at best. But if this is truly a crime shouldn't it be prosecuted?
These accounts happened in Malaysia, so someone would have to initiate an investigation and then seek extradition. It's not likely to happen.
On the other hand, this man has apparently a history of this behavior, so potentially there are similar actions in the US and people have yet to reveal them.
Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#23" It’s not just inappropriate, it’s assault. " I'm going to have to stop reading there. Now, of course, I don't know what happened, I wasn't there. What I'm seeing in front of me are glowing pixels that don't constitute a conviction. In my opinion if you believe you've been the subject of assault you ought to approach the police, or probably a lawyer.
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Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a few) rotten apples. Wow, that's really incredible optimism. I'd be more than happy if there was a 50/50 split between the kinds of apples but I fear that it is more along the lines of 20/80 or worse based on what I see and hear around me when no women are within earshot.
If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities. It's not normal and you shouldn't accept it as such.
> If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities.
Are you kidding? I wouldn't have enough time in a day. Just some stats, 1 out of every 6 women has been the victim of attempted rape or rape.
I'm aware of several such cases in the last 2 years alone, none of these resulted in an arrest or a court case and I have absolutely no reason not to believe the women.
Besides that I do not have the right to go to the authorities on behalf of someone who does not want to go to the authorities herself because more often than not they are part of the problem and tend to make the whole affair into an exercise in victim blaming.
This is an extremely complex issue and even if we can all agree that it is not normal there is no set recipe for how to deal with such situations.
Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#25If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.
Really?! Does it matter what she was wearing, too?
From the story, she had a bunch of people over, most of them left, one stayed, propositioned her (not assault), heard no, was asked to leave, then forced her into a corner and kissed her (very clearly assault and very clearly sexual harassment IMO [1]).
There are many "grey area" situations surrounding behavior in apartments with alcohol. This, IMO, isn't one of them.
[1] - This previously said "clearly sexual assault" in the parentheses.
Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#26If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.
When they say no and they persist, it is.
If you two were alone, you had sex, and you go to a doctor later and there are no signs of violence, how can you prove you actually said "no"? Honest question.
Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#27If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.
> invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you
That's not all she said happened. She said he ignored her saying no, and he physically touched her anyway.
Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#28>Non-consensual, sexual advances are not the same as flirtatious comments from a creepy dude It is refreshing to see this much needed distinction; I think many people in modern society have been conflating flirtation with harassment for the past few years. Still, not to speak against the author or victimized women, but I cannot understand why sexual harassment takes such a toll on women. I've been sexually harassed b…
Intimacy is one of the only things we (should) entirely get to choose who to share with. For everything else, there's societal expectations of some degree of doing things even though you don't really want to - but intimacy is the one case where as a society, we supposedly strongly believe that there should be no expectations that you are intimate with anyone you don't want to be intimate with. Women tend to get taught this idea more than men, who are instead taught that if they don't want to be intimate with someone, then something is either wrong with them or wrong with the person in question.
Now have someone force you to perform intimate acts with them, after a lifetime of being taught that you get to decide who to be intimate with.
As a terrible analogy: a lot of middle-class people for whom part of their primary goal in life is to own a house tend to never quite recover from being burgled. The reason for that is that they consider their house the one safe place they have. For many women, intimacy is the one safe thing they have.
Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#29What a terrible story. I'm sorry she had to go through that and appreciate her sharing it. I'm curious about the legal aspect of it. "Sexual assault" is a crime, right? The worst repercussions I hear from these stories are maybe a resignation at best. But if this is truly a crime shouldn't it be prosecuted?
Many victims decline to prosecute to avoid the mental toll the process takes, including having to relive their trauma, having their credibility torn to shreds and possibility of the perp being acquitted even in face of compelling evidence. Trying to recover and generally move on with their lives is already hard enough.
Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
When they say no and they persist, it is.
If you two were alone, you had sex, and you go to a doctor later and there are no signs of violence, how can you prove you actually said "no"? Honest question.
You probably can't. That affects whether or not you can reasonably pursue it, but doesn't change the objective fact of whether or not it was consensual.