Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#321

Post by skrause » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

maccard wrote: post #308

d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

I moved to the UK (from Ireland). It was relatively painless. No visas, no registration as a foreign worker, just show up and tell the JobCenter you need a National Insurance Number (which took almost a month from the first phone call to getting a cancallation, to getting the number in the post). Getting a bank account was tricky though, most banks wanted a proof of address on a utility bill, but I couldn't sign up t…

> I moved to the UK (from Ireland). It was relatively painless.

That's because both are EU countries (for now at least). Moving to France will also be much easier if you're an EU citizen, you won't have to deal with residence permits and your driver's license will also be valid.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#322

Post by user5994461 » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 1:59 PM UTC

maccard wrote: post #308

d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

I moved to the UK (from Ireland). It was relatively painless. No visas, no registration as a foreign worker, just show up and tell the JobCenter you need a National Insurance Number (which took almost a month from the first phone call to getting a cancallation, to getting the number in the post). Getting a bank account was tricky though, most banks wanted a proof of address on a utility bill, but I couldn't sign up t…

Your NIN is proof of address, if you can get it first.

A company can give you a letter to confirm that you work for them, that's also usable as a proof of address.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#323

Post by oblio » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:00 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #307

oblio wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France doesn't even recognize any other language than French within France, as far as I know. They have no minority languages, even though they have, and used to have, minorities.

> France doesn't even recognize any other language than French within France Officially, France (and the Academy) only barely recognize the existence of French spoken in their former colonies, and even then only when it's convenient (to maximize the count of the number of French speakers). They go out of their way to try to "preserve" the French that is spoken by white French people in France itself as the only offic…

I don't want this discussion to turn something it shouldn't be. I'm talking about other European natives here, such as the Basques or Bretons, for example. So no colonies involved or other tricky subjects.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#324

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:02 PM UTC

grp wrote: post #220

graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

You'll need to go to Paris for a medical check that you can do your job. All French employees must do this. And you have to do it every two years. Pee in a cup. Undress over there. Is it a joke? Never heard of that in 30 years..

[deleted]

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#325

Post by Luc » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

grp wrote: post #220

graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

You'll need to go to Paris for a medical check that you can do your job. All French employees must do this. And you have to do it every two years. Pee in a cup. Undress over there. Is it a joke? Never heard of that in 30 years..

They're not selling it very well.

In certain industries, the company pays for you to go and get a thorough physical checkup every two years, on company time.

It's the unions that negotiated this, it's a benefit to the employee.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#326

Post by eloisant » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

grp wrote: post #220

graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

You'll need to go to Paris for a medical check that you can do your job. All French employees must do this. And you have to do it every two years. Pee in a cup. Undress over there. Is it a joke? Never heard of that in 30 years..

There's a medical check but you don't have to pee in a cup (they propose you a urine test but it's optional) and you don't have to undress either, mostly chat with a doctor and pass an eye exam.

And it's only in Paris if you're in Paris, otherwise you'll do it wherever you live.

I don't really see what's shocking, it's just to make sure you're medically apt to do the job your employer is asking you to, and that your employer provides the right environment to work in a way that's safe for you.

For tech jobs it boils down mostly to workspace ergonomics, and a sane work schedule.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#327

Post by Tehnix » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:08 PM UTC

slau wrote: post #59

stevenwoo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what do you attribute the rise in stress - you only gave details on France and the salary change. Also did you already speak Danish?

I don't speak Danish, although I can read it fairly well---Dutch helps a lot. Language isn't much of a barrier. English works in 90% of cases, and broken Danish works in the other 10%. The first two modules of Danish classes are sufficient to survive anything given a proficient level of English (for context, there are around 6 or 7 modules, and they're all free, sponsored by the local government). The main sources of…

15k for 110m2 is not unreasonable if you are 20 min bike from city center. I feel ya though with regards to accommodation, but that is honestly mostly a problem in Copenhagen/Aarhus, and not so much in smaller cities, like say Vejle. For the larger cities to go cheap, you have to know a guy that knows a guy, or be related to someone with an apartment :(

Those aforementioned cities are University cities, and also the central hub for a lot of companies, making it a quite big problem. If you think you have it hard with a full paying job, imagine what the students go through, that pay ~5k DKK for just a room.

The weather I’ll grant you, if honestly hate summers because of the light and heat, since air conditioning is not really a common thing in DK.

And heh, if you don’t drink in Denmark, you are automatically gonna miss out on a lot of things, it’s such an ingrained part of the culture. That said, it has definitely become more acceptable to say no in recent years, but it works best if you are consistent, because else people will know they can nudge you into it and get you on board. If you are consistent, it will get respected (eventually at least).

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#328

Post by literallycancer » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:17 PM UTC

graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

Why not get a bank account in a different Eurozone country? SEPA transfers are required to be the same price as domestic in those countries.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#329

Post by user5994461 » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:24 PM UTC

palunon wrote: post #270

user5994461 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate to France.

Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries. You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.

Not really.

You change languages, currency, you need new bank accounts, new health insurance, completely different educational system. All administrations are different. The culture is also a shock. You will never find any of the grocery or shop you used to buy.

A French going to the UK is not much different than a Mexican going to the USA.

The only advantage is that you don't risk being deported by the police if they don't like you papers. You are effectively allowed to be there by the virtue of being European.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#330

Post by tobltobs » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:27 PM UTC

palunon wrote: post #270

user5994461 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate to France.

Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries. You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.

Not true for France. It might be easier for an EU citizen, but it is still a big waste of time. Getting a bank account still takes at least 3 visits. To hold a working card in your hand will take more then a month. Your driving licence is valid only for a year. And the Social Security nightmare is pretty much the same for everybody. And for the etc. prepare for that every bit will be a hassle.