Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#241

Post by zer0tonin » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:10 AM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #206

corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

I'm not exactly sure, but i think of the EU countries. Flanders in Belgium would be a better place to start then France. All developers/people speak: French, English and Dutch. The only thing is, the taxes are very high. But on the other hand, the health care is awesome and cheap. Flemish people are also known to be hard workers Anekdote: I'm Flemish, but this is what polls/research of EU-countries also conclude. The…

The Belgian administration is an even bigger mess than France. I have a colleague that had to wait 8 month in Brussles for his residency card, which is required for a ton of stuff (ie. getting a phone number in belgium).

Also in actual Flanders, some people in the administration will only ever talk to you in Dutch, even if they understand English and French.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#242

Post by NoB4Mouth » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:11 AM UTC

Here is a country that refused to give me knowledge when i needed it but it's now trying to lure me in.

A decade back i finished my high school in a French speaking country with honors and got an admission in a French university to study Business Administration. I've been refused the entry visa for some imaginary reasons. Unofficially i was part of the group of potential foreign students who may refuse to go back to their home-country after graduation. I then stayed in my country went to university to get a "useless" B.A. that couldn't help me to face the socio-economic realities of the world. In 2015 i read a book "Googled" by Ken Auletta that shacked me to the core and pushed me to learn how to code. I'm now a self taught programmer with skills that will benefit any French Tech startup and products' projects that could create 1000s of jobs in France if i decide to start my companies there. That said, I would not go to France because it didn't welcome me when i wanted to get in order to acquire knowledge. Now France "needs" me to come and boost their shrinking economy with the tech-knowledge i have acquired elsewhere. Sorry Monsieur le President, I ain't coming.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#243

Post by zer0tonin » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:15 AM UTC

yaantc wrote: post #217

gagabity wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens in September? I'm going on vacation over there!

There's been a call for strikes to protest against the labor code reforms by several syndicates and far left parties (PC, Mélenchon's Insoumis). Expect the usual circus, but I don't think it'll be too bad. There were already some labor reforms under Hollande, and they went through. Now there's an even bigger majority for it. But syndicates and the far left have to go through the motions and protest on this. Get some…

> Now there's an even bigger majority for it

Hollande's reform clearly didn't have a majority, this one is in the same bag. Most of the people who voted for Macron did it only because of the fear of Le Pen.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#244

Post by realusername » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:15 AM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #97

seiferteric wrote: post #8

Wow you have to have a graduate degree to even be an eligible employee, never mind.

That would have excluded Bill Gates, Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs.

No, because they are not workers but founders.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#245

Post by xiaoma » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:16 AM UTC

grp wrote: post #225

ramblerman wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Founders Visa and an Employees visa. Only the employee's visa requires a masters degree. All the big names you dropped were people that never intended to be employees. I'm not sure what the problem is. > It's just making France look worse. This is just silly.

Yeah, and they would never have needed a special visa. It's sad, there is so much myths and fantasies around those specific guys.

It's not a "myth" or "fantasy" that they didn't have master's degrees.

To the best of knowledge any of them would have needed a visa to go to France, and one of them did in fact live in Canada and then the US on visas before naturalising and starting three separate billion dollar companies along the way.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#246

Post by realusername » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:19 AM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #108

madeofpalk wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a very similar requirement for their visa (I'm specifically referring to E3, which is the H1B for Australians) which only lets in 'skilled' people, defined by a university degree (or 3 years of work experience for every 1 year of degree, so a total of 9-12 years). It was pretty disheartening to get a job offer from a big tech firm in New York only to have any chances shot down because of visa...

At least it's only a 4-year degree though.

In France, 4-year degrees do not exist so it counts as a Bachelor.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#247

Post by graniter » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:21 AM UTC

realusername wrote: post #240

graniter wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that other countries are difficult, too. France moreso I think, but not alone in all of this. Which is why I'm arguing the difficulty in working in or starting a company in France is not money, it's navigating all the administration you need to do. And you won't know all there is to do until you do it. And since the laws change periodically, not even the prefecture will always know. I had immigration lawyers…

While France isn't the best country in the world for easily paying your taxes, it's clearly much better than the US if it's what you are afraid of.

Actually paying French income tax is pretty easy; it's paying US taxes if you are a US citizen working in France that's hard. I'm not sure Americans know that they are taxed on their income wherever they earn it. All other countries only tax your income that you earn in that country. French citizens don't pay income tax on their salary they earn in the US, but the reverse is not true. Not only do Americans have to pay French income tax, they have to pay US income tax, even if they earn all their salary in France and stayed in France the entire year. And it gets complicated how to calculate, which is why I pay HR Block $700 to do it for me.

This isn't France's fault. It's the US's.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#248

Post by sangnoir » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:21 AM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #221

sangnoir wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...as well as millions of other non-graduates you never heard of, with good reason. For any random field, it is easy to pick outliers. The question is, what matters more to you - rejecting a few false negatives or a lot more false positives.

In startups, nearly all the value is in the outliers. Black swan farming beats conservative strategies with even one success in a decade.

That strategy is favored by, and makes sense for Silicon Valley VCs. I could be wrong, but I think France is mostly concerned about creating jobs and advancing its tech industry as a whole rather than chasing unicorns.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#249

Post by NicoJuicy » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:25 AM UTC

zer0tonin wrote: post #241

NicoJuicy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not exactly sure, but i think of the EU countries. Flanders in Belgium would be a better place to start then France. All developers/people speak: French, English and Dutch. The only thing is, the taxes are very high. But on the other hand, the health care is awesome and cheap. Flemish people are also known to be hard workers Anekdote: I'm Flemish, but this is what polls/research of EU-countries also conclude. The…

The Belgian administration is an even bigger mess than France. I have a colleague that had to wait 8 month in Brussles for his residency card, which is required for a ton of stuff (ie. getting a phone number in belgium). Also in actual Flanders, some people in the administration will only ever talk to you in Dutch, even if they understand English and French.

There is indeed too much administration and official communication with the governement is in Dutch, no disagreement there ( although i think you can change this for businesses). Administration is improving though.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#250

Post by peteretep » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 10:26 AM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #197

peteretep wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I asked for a source on this it was him agreeing with a tangential talking point of May's. Can you source this more comprehensively?

You should google it for more infos. Here is a quote from the man himself: "If I am elected, France will launch a major initiative beginning this summer targeting the major Internet providers, so that they agree to the legal seizure of data from their encrypted services as part of the fight against terrorism"

That quote is substantially different from being against encryption. I mean, I'm not enthusiastic about his stance, but it's simply not what you're claiming.