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Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

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Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#21

Post by 3131s »

kwellington wrote: post #9

Here in Japan I regularly hear about women or families saying Japan isn't as safe as it appears. I never understood it, because the data doesn't back it up, and I've never experienced any trouble in nearly 5 years here. I don't have a TV. When I catch TV though, the news programs can harp on a minor crime here in Tokyo like a convenience store robbery for a good thiry minutes. These friends watch a lot of TV. I think…

I live in Phnom Penh and I'd say the crime here is about as bad as an average larger American city, but in a different way. There is more petty crime, especially theft. I've lived here 4 years and never had any problem really, but I see visitors and expats alike getting robbed frequently. I've avoided it because I don't carry anything worth stealing and I am not the type of person that thieves target.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#22

Post by mc32 »

Spivak wrote: post #18
mc32 wrote: post #3

What are people so uptight about? Not that I understand why, but it makes some sense if religious people are somehow shy to that, but atheists? Are people afraid of perception or afraid of misinterpretation or afraid physically, are there that many unhinged people out there? You can totally make friends with people of the same sex you are generally sexually attracted to and it does not mean or have to end up in a wei…

I'll speak up with an example from a man's perspective; it has nothing to do with attraction or religion, it's just not worth the risk. If I'm one-on-one with a woman and a misunderstanding makes her feel uncomfortable or threatened and she accuses me of misconduct or sexual harassment I'm at an enormous disadvantage without any witnesses. When even being accused could be career ending it's best to bring someone else…

I understand your PoV. I would say it would be extremely rare for a woman (or man) to make baseless accusations from uncertain interpretations. People who bring forward accusations are typically people who've had the same untoward thing done to them repeatedly.

That said, one has to acknowledge there are genuinely malicious people --but they typically have a pattern and it will not be their first time making false accusations.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#23

Post by bambax »

> When he needs to meet with women at work or his church, he makes sure doors are left open and another person is present.

Saint-Simon, the memorialist descibing life at the court of Louis XIV of France in the late 17th century, tells how, when the King had a meeting with his current mistress, he would leave all doors open so that no one would wonder about what was going on.

The problem was, when the King met with other women (or men) he would have the doors closed, so the fact that the doors were open was a tell! ;-)

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#24

Post by tluyben2 »

cup wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #3

What are people so uptight about? Not that I understand why, but it makes some sense if religious people are somehow shy to that, but atheists? Are people afraid of perception or afraid of misinterpretation or afraid physically, are there that many unhinged people out there? You can totally make friends with people of the same sex you are generally sexually attracted to and it does not mean or have to end up in a wei…

Theres a reason it was easier making friends pre-puberty.

Personal I guess but I see no difference in my life in that aspect between then and now.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#25

Post by Realist1337 »

dijit wrote: post #6

I seem to be the only person in the comments that agrees with the article. But I'm not American. I will absolutely not be alone with a female as a male if I can help it. One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over. Conversely; as a male a female is quite likely weaker than I am, thus the risk to them is that I cause them injury or force them to do something. Which is a horrendous thought an…

>> One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over.

Not sure why the downvotes either. I have personally witnessed a man in the office be fired for "sexual harassment" shortly after escalating an accounting audit issue. It is the easiest corporate weapon to use, and the default assumption is you are guilty. Even easier against awkward men who people love to hate.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#26

Post by speedplane »

mc32 wrote: post #3

What are people so uptight about? Not that I understand why, but it makes some sense if religious people are somehow shy to that, but atheists? Are people afraid of perception or afraid of misinterpretation or afraid physically, are there that many unhinged people out there? You can totally make friends with people of the same sex you are generally sexually attracted to and it does not mean or have to end up in a wei…

It's not easy.

Social relationships where there are strict rules of engagement (e.g., professional environments) and where the other person is different than you (e.g., power, sex, age, familial background, religion, etc.) can be extremely difficult to navigate. Dealing with these relationships isn't "natural," and going into it solely based on gut feeling often ends badly. The good news is that it can be taught and learned from experience, but sadly, many receive neither.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#27

Post by vacri »

Wasn't the problem less about his personal dining habits, and more about cutting off female lobbyists, given his role in politics? No-one cares if Bob down the road is uncomfortable eating 1:1 with a woman not his wife, because he's not a political powerbroker.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#28

Post by escherize »

dijit wrote: post #6

I seem to be the only person in the comments that agrees with the article. But I'm not American. I will absolutely not be alone with a female as a male if I can help it. One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over. Conversely; as a male a female is quite likely weaker than I am, thus the risk to them is that I cause them injury or force them to do something. Which is a horrendous thought an…

chilling effect: completed.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#29

Post by rufford »

It's a cultural issue with Americans. There seems to be a belief there that equality is not really equality but a battle of the genders imo. Women and men alike obsess over the differences and have very traditional dating structures/marriages. Gender equality in Europe makes the states look like a joke

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#30

Post by cbanek »

meric wrote: post #7
cbanek wrote: post #4

I'm really amazed that the data is that close for "having a work meeting." (25% of women say inappropriate vs 22% of men) That's a lot higher than I was expecting. It makes me wonder why as well. Is it just "inappropriate" (what I imagine Mike Pence thinks)? Does one side think the other side is trying to do something inappropriate or is trying to lead into something? At least in many jobs I've had, 1:1's were basica…

For the situations where the manager and the managed are of the opposite sex and one or both are aware of their own ethical and spiritual vulnerabilities maybe it'd be a good idea to have a 2:1 or 1:2 instead of a 1:1.

I hope you're joking, but if you're not, that sounds like a horrible idea to me.

Being a woman, and having had 1:1's with male managers for pretty much my entire tech career, I've never heard of this happening. I don't know what spiritual vulnerabilities you are talking about, but in terms of ethics if you can't work with a female employee, you shouldn't be a manager.

You're basically telling the person that you can't trust them enough to be alone with and honestly communicate with them when times are good. What happens when things get difficult?

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