6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#481

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #416

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost like, the police? The law should be handling sexual harassment. The reasons why we have these issues with companies is because there's a conflict of interest. The police are a third party and have no interest in the success/failure of the company, ideally.

The problem is corporate HR/PR departments acting against public interest to protect their employers. Besides, you can't call the cops to complain you were passed over for promotion because you refused sexual advances.

Why not?

You can call them over racist discrimination. There's no difference here.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#482

Post by 19eightyfour » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 8:55 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #444

grandalf wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read this thread yet but I'm curious why the downvote mechanism isn't sufficient moderation in a case like this. HN has been a superb place for discussion of issues relating to workplace harassment and it seems that having certain ideas forbidden is likely to harm the discussion.

It's because comments can have troll effects even when they're downvoted or flagged. There's a difference between expressing a view and setting this place on fire. There's no view that can't be expressed substantively and thoughtfully if one has a mind to, but it takes work. Throwing fuel on the fire or sand in the gears is different; that's vandalism, and it destroys the free exchange of views by ruining the contain…

Underrated comment.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#483

Post by nbouscal » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #480

nbouscal wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The law should be handling sexual harassment. I think people on both sides of this issue would love it if the law showed itself capable of handling sexual harassment cases. Unfortunately we have way too much evidence that that just isn't the case. The obvious example that comes to mind is Brock Turner getting three months, and that's in the best case where someone is actually convicted. Far too often it never gets…

And we have even MORE evidence that companies ALWAYS mishandle these cases with BLATANT conflicts of interest. You're basically arguing that companies should become their own units of law enforcement with their own punishments as they see fit, with no oversight. That is clearly not going to work. It clearly hasn't. If the law is unfair, we have the power to change that law. Exceptions always exist but we can not make…

I'm arguing nothing of the sort. While it probably feels good to strawman everyone who disagrees with you, it certainly isn't helping you persuade anyone, nor is it allowing you to learn from other perspectives.

While we may theoretically have the power to change the way law enforcement works on these issues, doing so would be dramatically more difficult than making marginal improvements within the industry itself. We shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#484

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 3:03 PM UTC

nbouscal wrote: post #483

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we have even MORE evidence that companies ALWAYS mishandle these cases with BLATANT conflicts of interest. You're basically arguing that companies should become their own units of law enforcement with their own punishments as they see fit, with no oversight. That is clearly not going to work. It clearly hasn't. If the law is unfair, we have the power to change that law. Exceptions always exist but we can not make…

I'm arguing nothing of the sort. While it probably feels good to strawman everyone who disagrees with you, it certainly isn't helping you persuade anyone, nor is it allowing you to learn from other perspectives. While we may theoretically have the power to change the way law enforcement works on these issues, doing so would be dramatically more difficult than making marginal improvements within the industry itself. W…

Please do without the smug BS first paragraph next time. Try forming a real argument instead. Thanks.

Industry has never gotten this right. How long until we finally see that the company trying to avoid bad PR and make money doesn't have conflicts of interest with these victims?

I've seen too many companies turn blind eyes to terrible workplace environments because the perpetrator "makes too many sales." or is "too important." It's always going to be a conflict of interest.

My advice to anyone is: collect evidence, quit, and file a lawsuit. Any other internal method will lead to even more abuse and fear.