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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#391

Post by collyw »

deepGem wrote: post #325
shams93 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to legalize prostitution so that an investor or manager who has these fantasies can play them out with professional help. If we viewed prostitutes as a form of health therapist and gave them professional respect rather than keeping them in the black market a lot of these guys could work out their power issues with a trained sex professional instead of creating these nightmares for innocent women who just want…

Agreed, prostitution as a profession should be seen more as a therapy, than as a playground for men to exploit their darkest sexual desires. I mean, if you read some of the horrific experiences prostitutes undergo, it'll leave you with disgust. Bottomline, we men have to learn to treat women with respect and equality, regardless of their profession, period. This is portrayed superbly in Pretty Woman.

Treating it as a profession rather than keeping it in the black market would probably go a long way towards reducing the horrific experiences.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#392

Post by lancewiggs »

xupybd wrote: post #381
escapetech wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily about power imbalances - subordinates might express interest in a superior, or a colleague might interest in another colleague, and both situations can be just as problematic as a superior expressing interest in a subordinate. The problem is simply one person deciding to single out another person for any deviation of expected treatment especially when it has no relation to the social context or w…

Inviting a coworker to church is a problem? Can someone elaborate please?

It's rude to assume someone else wants to go to your church, is into your sect of your religion, is into your religion or is religious at all. It's dangerous when you combine that with power structures from a work or other environment.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#393

Post by collyw »

danielharrison wrote: post #188
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

He's in damage control mode, a purely defensive move to dig his crampons in and stop sliding. He may mean what he says but only time will tell. Currently is all talk.

The problem with situations like this is there is a lot of context we are not seeing. Maybe its a very genuine apology. Maybe its an attempt at damage limitation. Maybe he was really pushy when hitting on the women and wouldn't take no as an answer. Maybe he was polite and took no for an answer the first time. Probably why the situation is fairly controversial as there are so many unknowns that would make the situation seem better or worse if we actually knew the full story.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#394

Post by collyw »

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #228
theWatcher37 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is a perfect example of what I've mentioned elsewhere. If you ever find yourself in this person's shoes (innocent or guilty) you have nothing to gain by this sort of public display of remorse/sepukku as others have called it. This type of angry, vitriolic, hate-filled-person will condemn you no matter if your apologies are sincere or not. The only logical move is to deny, people like the poster above will n…

Apologies like McClure are insincere because his behavior has likely been going on for years; targeting many many women (at least 6 according to his accuser); and because McClure knew then, as he does now, that he was in the wrong. Why do you think he is apologizing? Do you really think he is sorry or just sorry he got caught? I'm sure he is sincere, sincere that he feels bad that he got caught and is now suffering t…

I have been asking the same questions as you reading this thread, but I didn't jump to a conclusion anywhere near as readily as you have. There are far too many unknowns about the situation for me to do that.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#395

Post by collyw »

ams6110 wrote: post #20
cylinder wrote: post #8

I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.

I don't really understand socializing with co-workers outside of work under any circumstances, but especially with intoxicants involved. This includes company holiday parties, etc. Let work be work, and keep your social life separate. I've seen far more bad than good come out of such things.

Have a quick google. You will find that 38% of people have dated a coworker. I am pretty sure a fair few of those have turned into lifelong relationships. Personally I would regard that as a good outcome.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#396

Post by thehardsphere »

fatbird wrote: post #322
shams93 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to legalize prostitution so that an investor or manager who has these fantasies can play them out with professional help. If we viewed prostitutes as a form of health therapist and gave them professional respect rather than keeping them in the black market a lot of these guys could work out their power issues with a trained sex professional instead of creating these nightmares for innocent women who just want…

You're assuming these guys see this as a problem. I suspect for most of them, the power issues are, erotically, the whole point. Why patronize a prostitute for make believe alpha male abuse of one's position when one has the real thing every day?

Plus, if it really is a power thing, then paying for the prostitute immediately screws that up. They're paying, so they know it's not as real as it would be if they didn't.

Maybe if you could pay prostitutes for them as a third party in some way, that could work.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#397

Post by thehardsphere »

taurath wrote: post #372
throwaway05285 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make more money than another person or can possibly benefit them in some way or the person is attracted to you then you are in a position of power. You're argument is absurd and out of touch with the human nature.

This is a troll comment, right? I'm can't really tell anymore (sign of the times).

Don't ever assume so. The amount of Marxism that runs rampant on Hacker News cannot be underestimated.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#398

Post by thehardsphere »

theWatcher37 wrote: post #176
3327 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. All these guys who claim they are so smart and well rounded now all of a sudden are doing "I'm Sorry" posts as if they didn't know. WTF - of course they all were aware. Its easy acting all matter of fact and smart with everything else and then "I'm Sorry". Refer them to a public prosecutor because examples are needed for this to stop. We need some examples to be made.

This post is a perfect example of what I've mentioned elsewhere. If you ever find yourself in this person's shoes (innocent or guilty) you have nothing to gain by this sort of public display of remorse/sepukku as others have called it. This type of angry, vitriolic, hate-filled-person will condemn you no matter if your apologies are sincere or not. The only logical move is to deny, people like the poster above will n…

He doesn't have anything to gain, but his company does. They don't need the messy distraction of this incident ruining their business. This is their attempt to broom it, and they may end up brooming him as well.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#399

Post by thehardsphere »

pvaldes wrote: post #374
saghm wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the more reason not to engage (or attempt to initiate) a sexual or romantic relationship with a subordinate or superior.

Well, the problem is that then all we would have is a closed caste system, that is a very undesirable situation in itself and much worse.

Uh, no.

You know it used to be that men and women didn't work together, right? Like, this idea of being able to date at work has only been around for about 50 years or so, while the human race has been around for thousands. Somehow we figured out how to reproduce in the West without a "closed caste system" just fine. You can too, without dating anyone at your job.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#400

Post by thehardsphere »

ceejayoz wrote: post #70
an_account wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one sounds pretty genuine. With something of this nature you'd be stupid not to have PR people help out, but it does sound genuine. It sounds like he's stepping back and taking a very hard look at his actions and behavior. Hopefully he improves and doesn't do the same in the future. Also, hopefully other similarly situated people see this and learn from his (now very public) mistakes.

The best PR is usually going to be PR that doesn't sound like PR. I do hope people learn from this, but I tend to be dubious of "I've changed!" statements immediately after getting caught.

Well, let's be fair here: He didn't say "I've changed" he said "I am trying to change." And this isn't necessarily immediately after getting caught, but after the story was published in the New York Times; it's implied earlier that other people in the company approached him and explained to him that his behavior was unacceptable.

I think it's PR, but that doesn't automatically mean he isn't genuinely apologizing. The two are not mutually exclusive.

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