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What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

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Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#31

Post by cheapsteak »

rukuu001 wrote: post #27
gcatalfamo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job search is a full time activity if done right. It doesn't leave you time to do freelancing.

You're corroborating a quote from the article, which I don't think deserves downvotes. Would you like to expand on your point? It might be illuminating for people already established in the industry.

Different guy here responding

If you have a job, then you can only interview on lunch breaks or after work. If you have a shitty job then you have incredibly short lunch breaks and get off work late. You'll miss a lot of interview opportunities.

You also might not have time to do the various different screener exercises that many companies require of junior developers to make sure you actually know how to do something more complicated than fizzbuzz

If you've got two juniors of similar skill levels, and one of them needs this job significantly more, that may also weigh in your hiring decision

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#32

Post by austenallred »

75dvtwin wrote: post #30
austenallred wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentives for the bootcamp model are just so completely broken. You suck in people with promises of a career, have them pay $10k each, and if they don't get a job it's somehow their fault. It's really hard for word of mouth and reputation to kill a bootcamp because the demand outstrips supply right now. You could really suck, buy users with advertising, and make a killing for a looooong time. I truly hope the fu…

Interesting idea. Looking at your website " $0 up-front + 17% of salary for 2 yrs (or $20,000 up-front) " is 17% before or after tax? Also does location/country matter?

Before tax, $30,000 maximum, and currently only available in the US for a variety of reasons.

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#33

Post by tmacro »

On the flip side of of bootcamps, are orgs like 42.us org, which aside from being a nonprofit, is also completely free! Much emphasis is placed on code review by your fellow students, with it being required that your projects must be graded by them. They just opened a new campus in Fremont that even inclides a dorm room for free for about 11 months. Disclaimer, I attend 42 at the Fremont campus

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#34

Post by jypepin »

austenallred wrote: post #32
75dvtwin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting idea. Looking at your website " $0 up-front + 17% of salary for 2 yrs (or $20,000 up-front) " is 17% before or after tax? Also does location/country matter?

Before tax, $30,000 maximum, and currently only available in the US for a variety of reasons.

It's an interesting idea, but according to software engineering average salaries, seems like that "cap" will most of the time be met, making the cost of your bootcamp way higher than most.

I don't really get the "it's costly argument" since it is still education, and most education (at least in the US) and usually way more expensive than that.

I paid 10k upfront for 3 month bootcamp and got a job in a few weeks. Because I got the job through the referral system of the bootcamp, I got 5k back on my tuition. This seems like a good deal to me. The bootcamp was aligned with my success because they make more money through the referral also.

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#35

Post by austenallred »

jypepin wrote: post #34
austenallred wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before tax, $30,000 maximum, and currently only available in the US for a variety of reasons.

It's an interesting idea, but according to software engineering average salaries, seems like that "cap" will most of the time be met, making the cost of your bootcamp way higher than most. I don't really get the "it's costly argument" since it is still education, and most education (at least in the US) and usually way more expensive than that. I paid 10k upfront for 3 month bootcamp and got a job in a few weeks. Beca…

The program you're looking at isn't a bootcamp, it's closest to (but not equivalent to) a CS degree. Our bootcamp is $3k up-front, though we'll likely phase it out as there's a lot you simply can't teach in three months that good software engineers need to know.

And 10k up front isn't a big deal for me, and it may not be for you, but a lot of our students were making <$20k/yr before they joined, so the risk is enormous, especially when you look at the failure rate for bootcamps. Glad it worked out for you.

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#36

Post by thaumasiotes »

paradite wrote: post #19

> I couldn’t work because I really needed to do job searching full time. This is the part that don't quite understand. To me, the period when you search for jobs is exactly when you should be working as freelancer or working on side projects. Working helps you get into the coding zone so that you are more prepared for coding sessions during interviews. Working helps to add your resume and things to talk about when th…

> To me, the period when you search for jobs is exactly when you should be working as freelancer

That kind of assumes that I no longer need to search for jobs.

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#37

Post by rl3 »

pulpwave wrote: post #18

I used to teach front-end development at a bootcamp several months ago. What once was a great opportunity to share my 15 years of experience with various startups and fortune 500 tech companies ended up being a nightmare with management. First and formeost, I liked most of my students. They came from all kinds such as: Background Actors, wives of programmers, students, military veterans, teachers, and a hodgepodge of…

First of all, I'm sorry your experience was so terrible. Glad you escaped.

>... but to also have the boss read the idea proposals his students have as startup ideas and he would be the bridge to their funding. Except, he's the end of the bridge as an angel investor looking to own a huge chunk of their startup property before he prepares his elevator speeches to real angel investors.

So he's looking to steal ideas and/or "fund" his students who are just learning how to code. Wow.

Not that non-technical founders can't have good ideas, but on balance I'd say my dog could plan a more diabolical scheme than this dude. He sounds like he's just bad at being bad.

Lack of morals only gets one so far at being evil, solid strategy is still required.

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#38

Post by pacaro »

cheapsteak wrote: post #31
rukuu001 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're corroborating a quote from the article, which I don't think deserves downvotes. Would you like to expand on your point? It might be illuminating for people already established in the industry.

Different guy here responding If you have a job, then you can only interview on lunch breaks or after work. If you have a shitty job then you have incredibly short lunch breaks and get off work late. You'll miss a lot of interview opportunities. You also might not have time to do the various different screener exercises that many companies require of junior developers to make sure you actually know how to do somethin…

Thanks for the answer.

For myself, it is easy to forget this reality. Once your career is bootstrapped the story changes so much. I've changed employers only 4 times in 23 years, one of those was an acquisition, and the other three times I only interviewed with four companies (total, not each job change). Since getting my first job, I've never not gotten the phone screen/onsite interview/job offer.

Ok that all sounds very braggadocio. Sorry.

But when I consider my first job search: over a period of nine months I sent out over a hundred applications, received several hundred rejections (some companies like to reject you once for each internal department that doesn't like you), and finally scraped a handful of interviews, some mealy mouthed "maybe if" not-quite-offers, and finally a real job offer. I also had the unbelievable arrogance to walk out of an interview because they used a 4GL and I wanted a real programming job (I was polite about it, I waited until lunch and just said that I didn't feel that I would be a good fit)

Hone your craft, it gets better.

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#39

Post by twoshoes »

Companies here value skills in specific programming languages/tech stacks over skills in core Computer Science. They are hiring bootcamp graduates (who are overall weaker), over stronger applicants, just because the bootcamp graduate will hit the ground running quicker.

It makes learning Computer Science in university less valuable, since university graduates lack knowledge in specific programming languages/tech stacks. It's like saying, "You know all that stuff you learned about memory management, virtual memory, I/O subsystems, CPU schedulers and so on? Yeah that doesn't matter if you don't know Angular X.0"

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

Re: What I Learned from Researching Coding Bootcamps

#40

Post by ensiferum »

stale2002 wrote: post #29
rukuu001 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're corroborating a quote from the article, which I don't think deserves downvotes. Would you like to expand on your point? It might be illuminating for people already established in the industry.

I can expand on it. Fairly recently I left my job at a startup (I've been in startups for 4 years as a software enginer). Every single day I am practicing interview questions. I am talking with recruiters on the phone. I am talking with HEADHUNTERS on the phone (not the same as recruiters). I am doing tech phone screens. I am doing take home projects. And I am going to tech meetups. And I haven't even gotten to point…

But you haven't actually gotten that job yet. Just passed some phone screens. So it's too early to talk about "success"
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