Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm a creep. I'm sorry

500hats.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 453 posts

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#111

Post by pvaldes »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

It depends on his motivation, and several hypothetical motivations could fit here; Public shaming (voluntary or forced), aiming to deliberately burn/restore brigdes, lawyer advice or even e-fishing. Is not easy to eval his real expectations.

About the public seppuku question, maybe for a while but nah, for some reason everybody loves when other people discloses a hidden dark side and face public ashaming. Is something about being a social species, probably. We love gossip.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#112

Post by mc32 »

grecy wrote: post #95
orthoganol wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because he wanted to pepper in details like "It was over drinks and I thought it was social", aka actually defend his actions while renouncing them on the surface. The "upcoming discussions" with 500 associates reads like he's looking to get back onboard.

> "It was over drinks and I thought it was social" It is horrifying that world leaders and public figures use this kind of excuse, which is supposed to somehow give a pass, and then we see it trickle down to the man on the street. Really, the public figures should be prosecuted and made an example of, so that is the example for the average man. Anything less is unacceptable.

I think his use of "I fucked up" while on the one hand it makes it seem like he's acknowledging the seriousness of the incidents, on the other hand it signals that he still has an issue with social convention and knowing what is appropriate and not.

One does not go up to someone you owe deference and include the word "fuck" specially given the kinds of allegations and confirmation, in your apology. Understand social convention and understand respect. It's like he's apologizing to one of his "bros".

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#113

Post by taurath »

caseysoftware wrote: post #88
sergiotapia wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I immediately thought odd it was to meet like that over drinks with a group of people. That's never not been social for me. So I'm glad he painted a picture.

There are dozens, hundreds of events ranging from meetups to conference parties to pitch events to just about everything else that often involve drinks or going out for drinks immediately before/after with other participants. Whether that's "social" or a "professional" setting is hotly debated but regardless, it's the norm. Throw in social media and it is very easy (still not appropriate) to blur lines.

If you have a job where you are working 12 hour days and weekends, your job is your life. I am actually curious when would an actual appropriate time to ask someone on a date might be - clearly the second someone brings up professional stuff, it should be out the door, but the veil of that can be breached with a simple "what have you been working on lately"

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#114

Post by chasing »

aortega wrote: post #87
chasing wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: You don't have the right to be creepy or predatory towards women just because alcohol is involved. Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed.

> Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed. Yes but you have to understand that we humans have a incredible high drive to reproduce, and many successful couples forms in the work environment. I have a child with a coworker. Sexual approaches do happen in those kinds of environments but there are a big difference between approaching someone and sexually harassment. Moder…

> ...there are a big difference between approaching someone and sexually harassment.

100% this.

I absolutely believe people can form legitimate and wonderful relationships with coworkers -- even subordinates. Having a kid is awesome and it's great that you found the right person.

But.

There's a clear and obvious difference between building a relationship with someone (even a purely sexual one!) and trying to exploit a power imbalance for free sex. The clearest part of that difference is that building a relationship involves respecting that other person, not just viewing them as an object to be consumed. I suspect you have a tremendous amount of respect for your partner -- and that respect was probably part of the reason you hit it off in the first place.

People who have power need to be especially alert to this. With great power comes great responsibility -- and all that jazz.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#115

Post by [deleted] »

meowface wrote: post #71
[deleted] wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

>Do you send just one job application when you're trying to find a new job? No, but if it's a lucrative job that I really want to work at, then the hiring manager definitely has power over me. >That assumes that transaction is somehow not mutually beneficial. It is mutually beneficial, but you're probably looking at a 30:1 (or higher) benefit ratio here, in his favor. > In the end, she's the one that has power over h…

[deleted]

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#116

Post by dbg31415 »

lubujackson wrote: post #98
dbg31415 wrote: post #57

A HUGE percentage of couples meet through work. It's not inherently wrong, or something inherently taboo. (We've all been told not to stick our pens in the company ink, but... time and time again we also see examples of happily married couples who met on the job... Bill Gates' wife worked for Microsoft, The Obamas met while they were working together, Ryan Reynolds & Blake Lively met on the set of Green Lantern...) S…

Meeting a coworker (even a boss!) socially, having drinks, escalating into a relationship - no problem. Normally-socialized people can do this because they can make these decisions over time, being careful to give the other person outs along the way. McClure was basically honking his horn while driving his Tesla down the street, hollering "nice tits!" At best, that is anti-social, rude and offputting. But to do it wh…

> How would you feel if McClure gay propositioned YOU while trying to apply for a job? You want to work at this VC fund but before you can get your foot in the door he says you are a super hot stud and and he wants to take you home. For a man, it would be awkward as hell but easy to deflect. And you would probably rather not work there (this is where it is bad for business, not just McClure's penis).

When I was in my 20s I had an older female boss hit on me all the time. It made me not want to work with her. And as soon as I could move projects I did. I didn't worry about it past that. It never occurred to me that I should be upset or hurt but her behavior. I just thought she was pathetic. I've had a gay boss, and would joke with him about how many blowjobs I would need to give to get out of a deadline... point being, maybe it wasn't "appropriate" but we had good rapport. You can laugh about stupid stuff. It's when people get all worked up and start wanting to tell others how to live that I think the real problem kicks in.

> As am attractive woman, this shit happens ALL THE TIME. Please stop defending it as "normal animal behavior" or whatever. Using power to get laid is fine if someone is attracted to that. But using power OVER someone is coersion. Anyone over the age of 13 should be able to figure this out.

I haven't read much about this story past what I saw on HN, but it just made McClure out to be a guy who was super awkward around women. Not in an aggressive predatory way, more just a sad geeky sort of "I haven't gotten laid in a long long time..." sort of way. There's always a power dynamic... some people can offer a job, or more social connections, or physical attraction, or money... it's not just that the guy had power over the girl -- clearly if he's feeling compelled to hit on the girl she had power over him too.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#117

Post by learc83 »

liquidise wrote: post #92
chasing wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: You don't have the right to be creepy or predatory towards women just because alcohol is involved. Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed.

Honest question, maybe one best asked to my female friends: at what point does propositioning someone transition from simply not mutual attraction to sexual harassment? The definition is broad and says making "unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks". Is there a line drawn between romantic and sexual propositioning? I'm not looking to be intentionally obtuse here, i'm more trying to make sense of the legal nature…

When there is a big power difference for one. If you have control over someone's livelihood, propositioning them is inappropriate.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#118

Post by randyrand »

pgroves wrote: post #13

Best part is the woman who confronted the CEO about being a serial sexual-harrasser and ended up CEO. Edit: Re-reading I can't tell what his title was, only that she was CEO after the fact.

it does call her intentions into question.

she was not a neutral party and he should not have gone to her for advice.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#119

Post by taurath »

infodroid wrote: post #34
cylinder wrote: post #8

I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.

The goal is to get to know your coworkers better, so you can see them as people instead of mere job descriptions. It's still a workplace setting, except that you are discouraged from talking about work. The alcohol is there to cut through the inevitable anxiety that such situations create, not as an excuse to be unprofessional.

How can you see them as people if they aren't being less professional in that setting? What would be the difference? Why wouldn't it be the exact same as water cooler talk?
Post reply on HN