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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#81

Post by sergiotapia »

orthoganol wrote: post #75
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

I think it's because he wanted to pepper in details like "It was over drinks and I thought it was social", aka actually defend his actions while renouncing them on the surface. The "upcoming discussions" with 500 associates reads like he's looking to get back onboard.

I immediately thought odd it was to meet like that over drinks with a group of people. That's never not been social for me.

So I'm glad he painted a picture.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#82

Post by ceejayoz »

dbg31415 wrote: post #57

A HUGE percentage of couples meet through work. It's not inherently wrong, or something inherently taboo. (We've all been told not to stick our pens in the company ink, but... time and time again we also see examples of happily married couples who met on the job... Bill Gates' wife worked for Microsoft, The Obamas met while they were working together, Ryan Reynolds & Blake Lively met on the set of Green Lantern...) S…

Much of the issue isn't just "meeting through work", but the power imbalance. Of your examples, only Gates includes this imbalance.

I don't know the specifics of their situation, but I'd hope that he recused himself from being directly involved in her performance reviews etc., whereas McClure was explicitly tying his attraction to the hiring decision - "I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you."

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#83

Post by sotojuan »

[deleted] wrote: post #48
sotojuan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing humane or real about that line. It's just a creep who can't control his hormones.

[deleted]

> Why should he "control" his hormones to begin with?

Because he's in a work/professional setting.

> What's so inappropriate in being confident enough to tell another person that you're attracted to them?

Nothing, if at a party, bar, or social event where people meet. In an interview at your company? Give me a break.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#85

Post by CurtMonash »

protomyth wrote: post #18
seibelj wrote: post #6

I keep a 100% wall between work and personal life for a reason. Anyone I'm doing business with I see at best as a coworker or business acquaintance, so there is no risk of merging those two realms. If you are powerful man or woman, you should be aware that people who know who you are treat you differently. This Dave McClure guy actually thought all these women were into him purely because he was some amazing dude and…

Not commenting on this case, but Billy Graham, after seeing what happened to other well know preachers, was never alone with any woman except his wife Ruth. It is a pretty good strategy. Today, a powerful person could probably enhance his/her personal security by having an assistant with an always on camera like some police forces use.

VPOTUS Mike Pence takes the same approach. This makes it tough for him to give important jobs to women, at least ones who would have to work closely with him.

That is not a good thing.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#86

Post by mc32 »

ams6110 wrote: post #20
cylinder wrote: post #8

I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.

I don't really understand socializing with co-workers outside of work under any circumstances, but especially with intoxicants involved. This includes company holiday parties, etc. Let work be work, and keep your social life separate. I've seen far more bad than good come out of such things.

The problem with him is his position. In a position where you can hire or fire people you should not be engaging in this kind of adolescent behavior.

People, colleagues and equals at work should be able to interact socially, over drinks and even hook up. People are human and sexual attraction is natural. I don't think we should try to pretend it does not exist and that we should remove it from the workplace.

What should not happen is people not knowing boundaries or social convention. People should know how to act and should know how not to act -even when drunk.

I don't think workplaces should be sterile, asocial places which ignore human predisposition to social interaction.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#87

Post by aortega »

chasing wrote: post #60
cylinder wrote: post #8

I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.

Fun fact: You don't have the right to be creepy or predatory towards women just because alcohol is involved. Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed.

> Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed.

Yes but you have to understand that we humans have a incredible high drive to reproduce, and many successful couples forms in the work environment. I have a child with a coworker.

Sexual approaches do happen in those kinds of environments but there are a big difference between approaching someone and sexually harassment. Modern women specially millennials tend to see any kind of approach (specially from unattractive males) as harassment and this is not the case, not even legally.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#88

Post by caseysoftware »

sergiotapia wrote: post #81
orthoganol wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because he wanted to pepper in details like "It was over drinks and I thought it was social", aka actually defend his actions while renouncing them on the surface. The "upcoming discussions" with 500 associates reads like he's looking to get back onboard.

I immediately thought odd it was to meet like that over drinks with a group of people. That's never not been social for me. So I'm glad he painted a picture.

There are dozens, hundreds of events ranging from meetups to conference parties to pitch events to just about everything else that often involve drinks or going out for drinks immediately before/after with other participants. Whether that's "social" or a "professional" setting is hotly debated but regardless, it's the norm. Throw in social media and it is very easy (still not appropriate) to blur lines.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#89

Post by noonespecial »

rdiddly wrote: post #49
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

It does seem an awful lot like the same old narcissism that probably played a big role in the harassment and maybe even the drive toward entrepreneurship and investing in the first place. They're all just different faces of the same thing. Business narcissism is a matter of making much of one's own achievements. Sexual narcissism is a matter of making much of one's prowess/attractiveness (and being tone-deaf to what,…

Not reaching at all. I was trying to put my finger on what felt off about this while reading it. I think you've got it exactly.

It reads like an apology on the surface, but it feels more like bragging and attention seeking.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#90

Post by fellellor »

adriand wrote: post #41
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

Totally agree. There's something very weird about this post. If I were truly faced with the sudden realization that I was a deeply shitty person, I can't imagine writing a post like this. I'd be off the grid entirely, probably drinking in a ditch some place. I know I can't speak for others and everyone is different, but the human element is missing here somehow. It does feel very PR.

Buy will these yesterday's PR moves work in the much more cynical world of today?
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