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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#71

Post by meowface »

[deleted] wrote: post #55
meowface wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He doesn't have any power over this woman. She wasn't even hired yet to begin with. Are you kidding? He has power over her future employment. She wants a job there, and he has the power to give her the job or to reject her. Also, if he were to hire her, he'd have power over her during her entire employment.

[deleted]

>Do you send just one job application when you're trying to find a new job?

No, but if it's a lucrative job that I really want to work at, then the hiring manager definitely has power over me.

>That assumes that transaction is somehow not mutually beneficial.

It is mutually beneficial, but you're probably looking at a 30:1 (or higher) benefit ratio here, in his favor.

> In the end, she's the one that has power over him, as evident from all publicity and his subsequent apology and management changes.

No, she only has power over him insomuch that she can leak any attempts by him to exploit his leverage over her. If he doesn't make any such attempts, she has no power.

This is like a cop beating and arresting someone recording him and, after the tape leaks to the media, defending the cop with "the suspect was the one with power over him because he was filming him, as evident from the aftermath."

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#72

Post by cyberferret »

thejerz wrote: post #63

[deleted]

But to differentiate ourselves from animals, we have this thing called 'civility'. We have the capacity to rationally think about our actions and discard primate style behaviours that do not function in modern society.

Not too many city dwelling men use their narrow focal vision and instinctive ability to calculate parabolic maths and wind speed to throw spears at dinner.

That means they should also curb their instinctive impulses to club the nearest female and drag them back to the cave by her hair...

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#73

Post by jmcgough »

nnfy wrote: post #43

It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even successful young males experience in tech. This does create an incentive for women to play a little loose with their professional behavior, and we only see one side of the story here. No, I don't mean to excuse McClure's behavior entirely; however, the fact that many of these women did not immediately cease contact after innapropriate advanc…

Yes, you are victim blaming. You are immediately assuming with no evidence that she's some kind of conniving she-devil.

They are not in tech. They are in venture capital, and it's more challenging to get a position at a VC firm than it is to get a job at a startup as an engineer.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#74

Post by lopatin »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

My reaction would be more similar to yours than Dave's. But he's a public figure, with a blog and twitter and people that know him and stuff, so I guess in that position, people start asking "why aren't you posting something?" rather than "why did/will you post something".

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#75

Post by orthoganol »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

I think it's because he wanted to pepper in details like "It was over drinks and I thought it was social", aka actually defend his actions while renouncing them on the surface. The "upcoming discussions" with 500 associates reads like he's looking to get back onboard.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#76

Post by imgabe »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

I think it's less about the people involved and more about setting an example for others who might be in a similar position.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#77

Post by [deleted] »

insickness wrote: post #61
[deleted] wrote: post #22

[deleted]

The problem here is that they met through the recruitment process and she was being considered for a job. That means that he had power over her which makes this potential sexual harassment. It would be different if they had met in a bar and talked about a job at his company and he had sent that email.

[deleted]

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#78

Post by superplussed »

dbg31415 wrote: post #57

A HUGE percentage of couples meet through work. It's not inherently wrong, or something inherently taboo. (We've all been told not to stick our pens in the company ink, but... time and time again we also see examples of happily married couples who met on the job... Bill Gates' wife worked for Microsoft, The Obamas met while they were working together, Ryan Reynolds & Blake Lively met on the set of Green Lantern...) S…

Power inbalance man, that's the point.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#80

Post by 3327 »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

Come on. All these guys who claim they are so smart and well rounded now all of a sudden are doing "I'm Sorry" posts as if they didn't know. WTF - of course they all were aware. Its easy acting all matter of fact and smart with everything else and then "I'm Sorry". Refer them to a public prosecutor because examples are needed for this to stop. We need some examples to be made.
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