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NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

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Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#211
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Java/Spring an issue here? Guess what powers Amazon, Google, Apple etc.

Not Java/Spring? Google at least is known to use C/C++ for its backend. Python is (or was?) used in YouTube.

Google uses lots of C++ for very performance critical parts (search, browser) and then lots of Java everywhere else.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#212

Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts. Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, t…

I interviewed there a couple years ago. the guy forgot to call me for the phone screen. I emailed the recruiter and they said sorry they can reschedule for 7pm that night when he got home. on the call (which started at 7:15) he talked 90% of the time. he would ask me two or three questions at a time, and when I would get a chance to answer one he would jump in and answer the rest of them for me. I was rejected for la…

I interviewed there in 2012. The engineer called me, did his little talk and we jumped into the questions. His first question was the subset sum problem. The literal problem. It wasn't even couched in a practical application. So I said "this is subset sum. You can solve it with dynamic programming. I would look it up in a book." His response was "but I want you to solve it." I stopped the interview and thanked him for his time.

I'm a senior engineer. Those types of interviews are to stoke the egos of green engineers who remember the solutions to their algo finals questions. If I can look it up in a book, it's not worth the time to quiz me on it.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#213
post #59
post #40

Conjecture? Palantir is known to be rabidly expensive. The available information on the internet and from people I know who've encountered the technology directly describe their "product" as a mix of a very outdated tech stack and expensive integration services with expensive on-site support [1] My guess is that the NYPD did an analysis of the life-cycle cost of the system over another contract period, and probably d…

I have one question, will the new NYPD in-house developers be union or not? It'd be interesting if they were union just to see how that works, for better or for worse.

I wasn't aware of any unions with software engineers. Are you?

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#214
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with Java/Swing is that it limits development velocity and makes job less appealing for current employees. While HTML5/JS is not without its own problem. Yet using it over a native framework like Swing, enables the development process to leverage external knowledge (Open Source libraries, etc.). This problem is further worsened when your competitors in enterprise Business Intelligence space can leverage tho…

Meh, I've done typescript node.js and java play framework projects interchangeably for the past two years and honestly there isn't much of a difference when it comes to velocity or code verbosity. I think many people have a misconception of what modern java is. They still think java code is all this verbose monstrosity where every single thing requires massive amounts of boilerplate code. And yes, at one time it was…

You forgot to declare the package (i.e. the file path), and the class name (i.e. the file name), and the class definition so that the Verb you posted is chaperoned by a Noun.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of truth to this and they use rather unique (bordering on gimmicky) job titles such as 'Forward Deployed Engineer' as opposed to 'Solutions Engineer' or 'Technical Consultant' to add an aura of spooky government mystery and mask exactly what they do.

I think I lost some points with them a long time ago during an interview when, while trying to determine exactly what the "Forward Deployed Engineer" role that I was interviewing for actually meant, realized that it was actually just that of SWE consultant, a job which I'd previously held. So I kept referring to my extremely relevant experience from previously being a consultant, calling it as such, and that rubbed t…

Having been a "salaried contractor" for my second job, I learned to avoid those positions like the plague. When customers stop buying the company's software, guess who's the first to get the ax? Also, you get to sit by and watch project managers agree to all sorts of outlandish features that you'll be stuck implementing.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve not used one swing app where it wasn’t immediately clear how the app was made. It may check the box, much in the way that McDonald’s checks the “food” box, but I sure as hell don’t want to eat there.

> I’ve not used one swing app where it wasn’t immediately clear how the app was made. How do you know?

There's just something "off". Swing components don't behave like native components, even if they try to imitate the look. They also tend not to be as responsive and there are sometimes rendering issues (e.g. Swing buttons sometimes appear blurrier than native buttons depending on the system).

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#217
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). This is the first fallacy of software engineering. In general, nobody cares what the tech stack powering a solution to a given problem is. If it solves the problem, then it is considered a success by customers. There are exceptions to this rule, but there aren't many, and they don't really apply to Palantir's model. In their case, as long as the system spits out…

What about recruiting?

It's one of the most used and most known languages. There is no issue recruiting.

Better yet, it's been widely used for a while, so there is no issue recruiting experienced developers.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#218
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, I've done typescript node.js and java play framework projects interchangeably for the past two years and honestly there isn't much of a difference when it comes to velocity or code verbosity. I think many people have a misconception of what modern java is. They still think java code is all this verbose monstrosity where every single thing requires massive amounts of boilerplate code. And yes, at one time it was…

You forgot to declare the package (i.e. the file path), and the class name (i.e. the file name), and the class definition so that the Verb you posted is chaperoned by a Noun.

Well, you'd have those things in any language. A route definition, some kind of namespace, a controller object implementing a method for the route, the last bit being what I posted code for. My point is: Java doesn't need to be worse than other languages in any of those things anymore.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#219
post #3

NYPD gets their source data, but not the algorithm. Hard to say if that's unfair without knowing the nature of the contract. It's certainly not unusual to sell analysis without selling the "exactly how".

Definitely makes sense, especially if NYPD contracted with some firm to replace Palantir, and now wants the algorithm because that's the hard part to copy. Obviously the methods by which they are able to process information is the reason governments pay them big bucks.

No its not the algorithm, its an untamed firehouse access to Facebook data, all of it - not only what you see upfront, photos lead, or what marketers can target. It goes much much deeper than that.

Its a well-known secret that only Palantir has this type of contract signed with Facebook. A funny insiders anecdote is that some people joke about how this agreement is being signed: left side: By Board Member of Facebook: Peter Thiel. right side: By Board Member of Palantir: Peter Thiel.

This ability to query Facebook data anyway they want to is what gives Palantir competitive age. Tech stack is irrelevant; you might as well run it from a MS Access 2005, and you would still find clients, because they don't buy technology, but the result of crunching of data (well maybe something that hold more rows though)

Those who knows beginning of Palantir from a cocktail napkin times know it was a perfect asnwer to a question how to use FB data and make extra extra money. They's how Palantir was born.

Anyways, what most likely happened is that NYPD got enough of solid information on this and probably is questioning legality of pulling data from FB by Palantir without violating whole set of rules, laws, and US Constitution as well; hence they decided to stop before they may become part of a bigger lawsuit.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#220

Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts. Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, t…

I've heard Palantir is maybe the most credentials-/prestige-focused tech company in Silicon Valley. I remember thinking that sounds like a good way to build a below-average team that seems very impressive from the outside. When you look at what they're doing, this strategy actually starts to make a lot of sense. They're selling a product that's somewhat incomprehensible. The value of that product is very difficult to…

Well that's the big 5 consulting model hire lots of tier 1 university grads and rent them out at an eye watering day rate.
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