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NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

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Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#191

Post by rrdharan »

lokedhs wrote: post #107
sytelus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they often do. Netscape couldn't catch with IE because of their convoluted stack. Friendster couldn't catch with Facebook for same reason from what I hear. If you are building web app in COBOL or Fortran, you are certainly at huge disadvantage with someone else doing stuff with modern more richer platforms.

> “Netscape couldn't catch with IE because of their convoluted stack” Wait what? There are several reasons why IE managed to crush Netscape, but the complexity of their software stack isn't even on that list. I was working in the industry when all of this went down, and I can assure you that Netscape's software stack had absolutely nothing to do with it. The actual story is mostly about Microsoft leveraging their mon…

I was also working in the industry at the time.

Microsoft leveraging monopoly power was certainly a/likely the major factor, but Netscape also had serious execution problems trying to get out an email server and directory management product.. at the time they could have stolen significant share from Novell.

A lot of this is I believe covered in the famous "never do a rewrite" JWZ essay and in Ben Horowitz's book.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#192

Post by ryan-c »

x3c wrote: post #165
krona wrote: post #127

Everyone is focusing on Palantir. As someone who knows how much IBM has thrown at this over the past 2 years, it's really IBM and their historically strong relationship with the NYPD that is the real (but far more mundane) story. Ultimately, if you piss off the IBM execs enough (which is what Palantir is exceptionally good at), then IBM will mobilize a significant chunk of the company to obliterate anything in its wa…

What's the beef between IBM & Palantir?

IBM is competing with Palantir via a product called Analyst's Notebook, which they bought from a company called i2 a while back. Prior to the buyout, i2 sued Palantir over how Palantir's "import from Analyst's Notebook" functionality had been implemented.

It's entirely possible that there are other things going on between Palantir and IBM, but I'm not aware of any other specific squabbles.

Disclosure: I worked at Palantir from mid 2009 to early 2014 and still own some stock.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#194

Post by specialist »

CydeWeys wrote: post #172
mattmanser wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java/Swing isn't even a data format, it's the interface tech. Nor is it outdated. Like, if you'd said COBOL it might be a valid point. It's as ignorant of basic technology as saying my car runs on a particular type of rubber so I can't use batteries. Honestly, for a tech site I'm ashamed this is the top comment, just seems to be an excuse to rag on Palantir and decry not using the present FOTM.

I moved from a "sexy" NodeJS stack at my last job to a staid Java 7 stack at my current job (we can't move to Java 8 until App Engine supports it). The code at my current job is much better written, is more thoroughly tested, and is more pleasant to continue development on. The codebase at my previous job was a rat's nest, caused primarily by lower-skilled developers, no time allocated to technical debt or refactorin…

I recently took a job. Great team, great company, interesting problem, relevant work. Everything's nodejs, but I didn't worry. How bad could it be?

While the prize for Worst Tech Used in a Professional Setting might go to InterSystems Caché ® (syntax errors will bork your entire runtime, with no undo). And it's all downhill from there.

Nodejs (javascript + libuv, aka control flow obfuscation framework) is a strong contender. I've never worked so hard to make so little code reliable, robust, deployable. And there is no Right Way to use nodejs. Everything changing all the time, every day is a do-over.

As for Swing. Remove (or ignore) it's goofy MVC and it's just like Qt. State of the art UIMS for desktop when they both came out.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#195

Post by [deleted] »

x3c wrote: post #165
krona wrote: post #127

Everyone is focusing on Palantir. As someone who knows how much IBM has thrown at this over the past 2 years, it's really IBM and their historically strong relationship with the NYPD that is the real (but far more mundane) story. Ultimately, if you piss off the IBM execs enough (which is what Palantir is exceptionally good at), then IBM will mobilize a significant chunk of the company to obliterate anything in its wa…

What's the beef between IBM & Palantir?

[deleted]

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#196

Post by [deleted] »

criddell wrote: post #150
hueving wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is one of the most widely used languages in the world. I get the impression that people who think using Java is an issue are usually just hiding their own inadequacies by repeating hype they read on the Internet.

Would you still use it on the client side today?

[deleted]

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#197

Post by tristanj »

trimbo wrote: post #188
tristanj wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither, it's a feedback loop. By writing negative stories, when company insiders have a scoop and they want to leak it, they know they can contact Mr. Alden because they've seen his previous articles on the company and his track record of not revealing leakers. Mr. Alden then writes an article using such leaked information, which generates buzz within the company (employees share these articles among themselves), re…

> WSJ's Christopher Weaver and Theranos FWIW, I think it was primarily John Carreyrou. At least that's who Jesse Draper blames https://twitter.com/JesseDraper/status/799108097675378688

You're right, thanks for catching that. My google-fu failed me, apologies.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#198

Post by omlswing »

pjmlp wrote: post #101
omlswing wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and you can absolutely tell they are implented in swing. Dont get me wrong, I use these IDEs everyday because they are extremely powerful and good for understanding large codebases, but the UI is NOT their main selling point, sorry. Swing gets the job done, nothing more.

> Swing gets the job done, nothing more. Which is what matters when delivering business value to fulfil customer's needs, not to be something cool to write blog posts on HN. Also a few days reading "Filthy Rich Clients" would make wonders to some Swing developers that actually care about UI/UX.

Wrong. For most situaions today, there are plenty of apps that "fill your needs". So it comes down to ux. Starting with a shitty ux framework like swing means eventually someone will replace you.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#199

Post by acdha »

sytelus wrote: post #100
ProAm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology stacks do not make or break businesses..... It's foolish to think so.

No, they often do. Netscape couldn't catch with IE because of their convoluted stack. Friendster couldn't catch with Facebook for same reason from what I hear. If you are building web app in COBOL or Fortran, you are certainly at huge disadvantage with someone else doing stuff with modern more richer platforms.

This is true in some cases but I don't think it's particularly relevant to this discussion. A company running COBOL, Delphi, etc. has trouble finding developers. Netscape using C/C++ was not a problem – even today that's every mainstream browser engine and there are a ton of developers at every skill level.

Where Netscape got into trouble was in the decisions which they made: that massive rewrite was poorly timed, along with the catastrophic management failures trying to grow so quickly, and their new codebase was arguably too complex but that's not an argument against the stack unless you're claiming that certain problems couldn't happen in a different stack, which seems implausible.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#200

Post by hluska »

downandout wrote: post #137
svendisnigh wrote: post #13

Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts. Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, t…

>Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). This is the first fallacy of software engineering. In general, nobody cares what the tech stack powering a solution to a given problem is. If it solves the problem, then it is considered a success by customers. There are exceptions to this rule, but there aren't many, and they don't really apply to Palantir's model. In their case, as long as the system spits out…

What about recruiting?
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