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NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

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Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#161

Post by mattmanser »

svendisnigh wrote: post #13

Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts. Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, t…

Java/Swing isn't even a data format, it's the interface tech. Nor is it outdated. Like, if you'd said COBOL it might be a valid point.

It's as ignorant of basic technology as saying my car runs on a particular type of rubber so I can't use batteries.

Honestly, for a tech site I'm ashamed this is the top comment, just seems to be an excuse to rag on Palantir and decry not using the present FOTM.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#162

Post by JBReefer »

quickthrower wrote: post #68
nebabyte wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A ton of their “products” are modern TypeScript + React UIs That's... not exactly better, tbh

Not getting this obsession with the tech stack ITT? You can run a profitable business even when using Java, Typescript and React. Infact choice of language probably makes less difference than us geeks would hooe. Outside of really bad language choices.

Bikeshedding/social signaling

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#163

Post by TeMPOraL »

Zigurd wrote: post #144
pjmlp wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because they are all busy trying to make HTML/CSS/JS work like GUI tools we already had in the 90's, while failing to do so without major hacks, which then get written in blog posts as some kind of victory. React is the latest example of it. Great! They just discovered how many 80's UI's used event loops.

I have a lot of sympathy for this view. But the results are that a good-looking Web UI is better accepted than a consistent and full-featured Swing-based UI, in no small part because it's more difficult for Web designers to make Swing apps look good.

Primary reason it's accepted is because people generally don't have a choice. It's rare to find an alternative to any given service that offers the same functionality but doesn't follow latest designer fads.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#164

Post by TeMPOraL »

egwor wrote: post #124
tp3z4u wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have friends that work there and say the same thing. I turned down a job there a long time ago, I did ontologies academically so I already knew they didn't work for what they were trying to do.

What's 'ontologies academically'?

I'd shorten that to "what's 'ontologies'"? I did a class on Semantic Web, and spend a fair amount of time reading articles (and a book) about that, and I still don't have any clue what exactly do they mean by "ontology"... It's like the meaning of this word somehow escapes my mind.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#165

Post by x3c »

krona wrote: post #127

Everyone is focusing on Palantir. As someone who knows how much IBM has thrown at this over the past 2 years, it's really IBM and their historically strong relationship with the NYPD that is the real (but far more mundane) story. Ultimately, if you piss off the IBM execs enough (which is what Palantir is exceptionally good at), then IBM will mobilize a significant chunk of the company to obliterate anything in its wa…

What's the beef between IBM & Palantir?

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#166

Post by RhodesianHunter »

munin wrote: post #155
kpil wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think java comes out as one of the most efficient and battle tested backend languages. For data crunching, especially statistical jobs, Python is probably also a good fit although it's not as efficient but have a number of good statistical, mathematical and ai toolkits that seems to be more active. For running more specialized jobs, R have even more tools, but is a bit more shaky as a general language although it i…

Just curious, do you have direct experience with big companies using R, python, etc in production? My sense from working with people from those companies (and a few internships at those companies) is that you could use something like R, matlab, or scikit-learn on your own workstation with a tiny data sample to explore the data, but then do crunching by translating that program into some Java or C++ code (sometimes us…

Having worked with several large (fortune 500) data science teams, they generally do their development in Python and then throw their models over the fence for us to productionize with Java.

The major difference I've seen between most of these companies is whether they've embraced Java 8 yet.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#167

Post by learc83 »

pjmlp wrote: post #102
colek42 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think writing a browser based, professional, CAD application is out of the question. Especially with WASM gaining support in modern browsers and WebGL2. I think this was done a few years ago, but it still amazes me. http://www.meshlabjs.net/

WebGL2 is a nice toy for writing blog posts, nothing more. All my mobile devices have OpenGL ES 3.x running intensive native games without issues. Yet for mobile browsers I have to specifically enable the WebGL 2 support. No user without technical skills is ever going to deep dive in the browser flags to enable WebGL content on computers that don't have any issue playing 3D games.

It's enabled by default on Chrome for Android and Android webview now.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#168

Post by kpil »

munin wrote: post #155
kpil wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think java comes out as one of the most efficient and battle tested backend languages. For data crunching, especially statistical jobs, Python is probably also a good fit although it's not as efficient but have a number of good statistical, mathematical and ai toolkits that seems to be more active. For running more specialized jobs, R have even more tools, but is a bit more shaky as a general language although it i…

Just curious, do you have direct experience with big companies using R, python, etc in production? My sense from working with people from those companies (and a few internships at those companies) is that you could use something like R, matlab, or scikit-learn on your own workstation with a tiny data sample to explore the data, but then do crunching by translating that program into some Java or C++ code (sometimes us…

To be honest, until recently I'd say that everything would be rewritten in java - mostly since there were already deployment pipes for it.

With the latest container-based toolchains I think it's not a bad idea to deploy some R-based services for certain type of tasks.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#169

Post by awinder »

pjmlp wrote: post #101
omlswing wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and you can absolutely tell they are implented in swing. Dont get me wrong, I use these IDEs everyday because they are extremely powerful and good for understanding large codebases, but the UI is NOT their main selling point, sorry. Swing gets the job done, nothing more.

> Swing gets the job done, nothing more. Which is what matters when delivering business value to fulfil customer's needs, not to be something cool to write blog posts on HN. Also a few days reading "Filthy Rich Clients" would make wonders to some Swing developers that actually care about UI/UX.

I’ve not used one swing app where it wasn’t immediately clear how the app was made. It may check the box, much in the way that McDonald’s checks the “food” box, but I sure as hell don’t want to eat there.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#170

Post by rpedela »

svendisnigh wrote: post #34
jackmott wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nonsense

I welcome you to start your next hot startup in 2017 using Swing/Java instead of React/React Native/Node/Ruby/Python/Go/Rust/C++ etc. The merits of the stack are determined by both intrinsic factors and the market. Ignoring the market (remember Palantir is hiring in SV / Palo Alto) you risk alienating potential hires and current employees. [1] Another great example is EHR/EMR market with Mumps etc. [1] https://www.qu…

When it comes to NLP, Java is one of the best languages because of the library support (e.g. Lucene, Tika, Stanford CoreNLP).

You don't have to like Java, but it is fine to use and there are plenty of potential hires.

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