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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#571

Post by [deleted] »

Tharkun wrote: post #506
rhcom2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the women isn't interested, you stop. Seems like many men have a problem with rejection and accepting no, that's usually when it becomes creepy. Had Gates asked his now SO out and she said no and then he politely went on his way like a respectful human being I really doubt anyone would cry sexual harassment.

> If the women isn't interested, you stop. I feel like this is much easier said than done. Emotions can be complex and fickle. Many books have been written about how to woo a potential mate. There have been tales of love potions for hundreds of years. The dating scene is filled with people who use subtle manipulative behaviour to score. What I'm trying to say is that it can be very hard to know whether someone is int…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#572

Post by pharrlax »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #378
pharrlax wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He touched someone's face once like eight years ago "in a way that made her feel uncomfortable". A stupid, asshole, casually sexist move? Yup. Worthy of being raked over the coals despite bending over backwards to make amends in the years since? Uhhh... no, not really. Don't get me wrong. The other stories are really, really bad. Insanely evil, even. But the idea that Sacca's extremely minor dick move almost a decade…

He, himself, admits that this sort of behavior was a pattern. I don't think he has been or will be raked over the coals, because he seems to exhibit genuine remorse. I respect him, but my sympathy isn't with him. I'm sure it's deeply uncomfortable to be under this level of scrutiny and lumped in with people who have been caught doing things that seem skeezier. But you know what's worse? Not being a billionaire and tr…

"Seem skeezier"? We're talking about serial stalking, harassment, and sexual assault with multiple victims. Unless there are major facts we don't yet know, what Sacca did, even if part of a "pattern", pales in comparison.

And yet it's his face splashed over the "SEXUAL HARASSMENT SCANDAL" headlines, siphoning energy and criticism from the actual monsters, because he is a TV star so his being mentioned is more sensational.

Dave McClure is basically being given a slap on the wrist for obviously firing-worthy offenses. Would that happen if a celebrity wasn't taking the brunt of the press?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#573

Post by Shivetya »

5thaccount wrote: post #19
CydeWeys wrote: post #13

This is a watershed moment in the VC industry. The dam has finally burst, and we're now seeing the establishment of a new norm in which women who are being harassed go public rather than feeling compelled to hide it. Expect to see many men who were operating under the old norms getting ousted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

There should be no one on one meetings for any plausible business venture. Both sides needs to have multiple players to protect all interest and keep discussions to the subject at hand.

I would suggest than anyone who does get into such meetings simply demand the presence of multiple persons. This isn't a buddy lending money to another.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#574

Post by pbreit »

rl3 wrote: post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

On the McClure anecdote, you write "undergoing recruitment" which sounds formal but is almost certainly not.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#575

Post by justinclift »

scott_s wrote: post #293
stcredzero wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many people like that, and no, they don't derive an enjoyable power trip out of being rejected at all. Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it. These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desirable. Basically, power corrupts. Being a boss, an investor, or an employer comes with power. Just having t…

Saying no directly is uncomfortable - socially and potentially professionally. That's not because of "norms" but because of reality. Rejecting someone directly is socially awkward and potentially dangerous. It's not the responsibility of the person being pursued to protect the pursuer. It's pretty straight forward: if you ask someone out several times, and they keep making up excuses, they're not interested. Stop ask…

> Rejecting someone directly is socially awkward and potentially dangerous.

Very much this. People who've been rejected (male or female) can definitely be vindictive, nasty, and just plain evil. :(

I'm guessing it comes from their feelings of hurt inside from the rejection given. Which (personally) indicates how badly I sucked with interpersonal skills when rejecting people in my younger years. eg I'm pretty direct with people, but had literally no tact when younger. Bad combo. Ugh.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#576

Post by algesten »

drawnwren wrote: post #296
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many people like that, and no, they don't derive an enjoyable power trip out of being rejected at all. Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it . These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desireable. They think that this is how the game is played, and these things are a form of peacocking. They th…

I think you're pretty close to 100% correct here. My one addition would be that with our level of connectedness, it would require an insane amount of self control for an individual (male) to be of the mindset 'I take the things I want at work' and not have slip ups of the sort we're seeing here (inappropriate messages etc.) Because this disclaimer seems necessary in posts like this, I am in no way condoning his actio…

Oh. You're one of those people:

"I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#577

Post by [deleted] »

algesten wrote: post #576
drawnwren wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're pretty close to 100% correct here. My one addition would be that with our level of connectedness, it would require an insane amount of self control for an individual (male) to be of the mindset 'I take the things I want at work' and not have slip ups of the sort we're seeing here (inappropriate messages etc.) Because this disclaimer seems necessary in posts like this, I am in no way condoning his actio…

Oh. You're one of those people: "I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#578

Post by robteix »

curun1r wrote: post #556
zbraniecki wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article, and this conversation is about one pathology. You bring up a different one and say "we should treat them equally!" - that's not very different from the "all lives matter" bullshit. Sexism and discrimination of women in tech industry is a massive problem. What you described probably exists in some cases, but is not a) related to the problem at hand and b) orders of magnitude less profound. By bringing it…

Everyone keeps mistaking my meaning. I'm not trying to excuse the behavior or say that it's okay. I've repeatedly condemned it. But we need to decide what we want as a result of bringing this kind of behavior out into the open. Do we want to punish and ostracize the guilty or do we want to minimize the occurrence of this behavior going forward? If it's the former, then by all means get out your pitchforks and we can…

> Everyone keeps mistaking my meaning.

This should tell you to stop and think about what you’re really saying.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#579

Post by qb45 »

mirimir wrote: post #535

Yes, this is it, I think. I knew this guy, many years ago, who bragged about walking up to random women, and asking if they'd like to have sex. He said that he got slapped a lot, but also had lots of sex. I think that he was just BSing, but who knows?

Nowadays it's called "daygame". Controversial topic because on one hand you have many "hobbyists" who are serious about it and optimize for success and avoiding getting slapped, on the other hand you have losers (real story) who touch strangers on the street thinking it will get them laid.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#580

Post by mirimir »

rl3 wrote: post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

Even if Ms. Dent was trying to manipulate him sexually, Mr. McClure totally missed the point. If they had met in a public place, with no professional context, he might reasonably have twitted her about flirting with him.

But in a professional context, he would have been better served by just making sure she didn't get hired. Because you don't want to hire people who sexually manipulate their colleagues.

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