Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#541

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:12 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #522

TeMPOraL wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that logic who knows how many Jehovah's witnesses this person groped and/or fucked. I'd love to know what you mean here, because I can't see how this follows anything .

To get rid of them. Me, I start going on about the benefits of trepanning, and invite them out to the workshop ;)

I see :).

Life pro tip: just say them in a calm, explicit and direct manner that you are not interested in receiving their visits and information from them. They respect that. They might show up after a year or so, just to check out if this is the same family living under the number.

They're pretty organised and respectful in what they do, so polite and direct works best.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#542

Post by djhworld » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:14 AM UTC

nashashmi wrote: post #521

Isn't there an inherent culture among men that dates all the way back to middle school, high school, and college that somewhat sets the tone for inappropriate behavior later in life? These kinds of behaviours happen a lot and begin at a very young age. And they seem to be okayed by nearly everyone then. Why don't these things stop before they begin? I almost feel sorry for the men in these stories because the rules s…

You can't tarnish all men with the same brush though. Not all men exhibit this behaviour.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#543

Post by tawayyy » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:14 AM UTC

One thing that always makes me very sad is to see women working nearby top males in a company to look nowhere like normal women, but more like top models. Sometimes this happens just because a very beautiful woman is also very smart, but given the frequency of this thing I bet that there are cases of a conscious bias to select hot women. Now if you hire on purpose beautiful women that's a pretty good recipe for disasters.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#544

Post by danblick » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:17 AM UTC

worldofeunuchs wrote: post #510

Why I never read of men sexually harassed by a woman? Isn’t that suspicious that something is not right?

Your comment reminds me of reading something, I think maybe from Judith Donath, about how throw-away accounts tend to be bad for online communities.

Something like ~ https://www.wired.com/2014/04/why-we-need-online-alter-egos-...

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#545

Post by jbmorgado » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:18 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #396

jbmorgado wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "If you're really truly worried about false accusations then here's another fix you can have for free: record your meetings, texts, emails, and calls with founders and/or don't meet alone." Well, there are two problems with that. 1 - It puts the burden of proof on the accused. I.E. it totally throws out of the window what has become a de facto human right and an universally established legal one in every democracy:…

As has been pointed out, no one is suggesting non-consensual recording. Starting a meeting with, "do you mind if I record this?" is hardly alien. As for burden of proof, I don't see it. It's like saying that asking people to lock their houses is a burden, when thieves are the criminals. If you are a VC having a meeting with a founder, arrange for for more than 2 people to be there, such as a co-VC, a co-founder, a se…

> "As for burden of proof, I don't see it. It's like saying that asking people to lock their houses is a burden, when thieves are the criminals."

This is surely the poorest analogy I've ever read in my all life, comparing a burglar trying to enter your house with someone falsely accusing you of something.

What about the burden of proof you don't see if you go casually dressed to shop in some fancy shop and they falsely accuse you of trying to shoplift and you - oh bummer - didn't record everything?

You also don't see any burden of proof on you if you go to some corrupt country and the police falsely stops you for speeding and you didn't record your all trip after the moment you got there (though luck, if you didn't record everything is because you surely did something wrong)? You don't see that burden of proof on you, right?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#546

Post by DonHopkins » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:19 AM UTC

rl3 wrote: post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

I've known Marc Canter for a long time, but I don't know anything about Ms. Dent or her interactions with Marc.

However, he has so many other highly effective behavioral techniques for making people go away, that it sounds pretty fishy that he would just happen to deploy that particular technique in that particular situation for that particular person.

If he dislikes your ideas, he'll usually simply tell you directly and loudly, not hit on you to make you go away.

So I have a hard time buying his explanation.

But I would not describe him as a rich powerful VC holding money and power over the women he harasses.

If what she says is true (which I don't know and he denies), he may be a sexist pig contributing to the toxic environment for women (which is wrong and should be called out and condemned), but he's certainly not in the same category as Dave McClure and Justin Caldbeck.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#547

Post by mirimir » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:22 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #541

mirimir wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get rid of them. Me, I start going on about the benefits of trepanning, and invite them out to the workshop ;)

I see :). Life pro tip: just say them in a calm, explicit and direct manner that you are not interested in receiving their visits and information from them. They respect that. They might show up after a year or so, just to check out if this is the same family living under the number. They're pretty organised and respectful in what they do, so polite and direct works best.

Seriously, yes. And indeed, I've sometimes enjoyed talking with them.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#548

Post by photik » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:22 AM UTC

svwc wrote: post #203

rdlecler1 wrote: post #11

Has anyone seen a policy on how to handle sexual harassment allegations in the work place? If it comes down to 'he says she says' do you fire someone even though you don't have evidence? Similarly, if you don't fire someone and new allegations come up later then it makes the employer look like they are an enabler.

A witness statement is evidence. Evidence isn't only things you can touch. A photograph isn't any more evidence than a witness statement is. A photograph isn't inherently more credible than a witness statement. You should consider the credibility of each piece of evidence regardless of what type of evidence it is. A statement made by a trustworthy employee should be taken seriously, "he said she said" is not a valid…

Witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence. It's foundationally unempirical.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#549

Post by nostrademons » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:28 AM UTC

vostok wrote: post #471

nostrademons wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd question that. My wife is a former bond trader. At one point, the guys on her trading desk took her out to drinks, and one asked her, "So, are you still a virgin?" She was about 25 at the time.

Do you think tech doesn't have these problems? I suspect you're going to say that you've never personally seen it, but culture can vary a lot from desk to desk in finance. Stereotypically, you have cash equities at one extreme and exotic derivatives at the other. Outside of banks, the culture at an HFT firm or quant hedge fund will be completely different from the culture on a "bro-y" bank desk.

It's true I would never personally have seen it in tech, but I'll say that my wife has recounted this story to a number of my female friends with 10+ years of experience in tech, and their response is "Seriously? Wow."

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#550

Post by qb45 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 9:29 AM UTC

zbraniecki wrote: post #501

curun1r wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did I ignore that? I called their behavior reprehensible. I'm just saying that it's unlikely the behavior exists in a vacuum and that things are never as black and white as they're made out to be. Historical oppression doesn't justify questionable behavior. I've seen many instances where women have "dated up" to help their careers. I even saw one instance where a female director dated the CTO and later the CFO…

This article, and this conversation is about one pathology. You bring up a different one and say "we should treat them equally!" - that's not very different from the "all lives matter" bullshit. Sexism and discrimination of women in tech industry is a massive problem. What you described probably exists in some cases, but is not a) related to the problem at hand and b) orders of magnitude less profound. By bringing it…

The other pathology is relevant because it contributes to the first one. It's not about equal exposure for the sake of equality, but relevant to understanding how shit works and how to deal with it.