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NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

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Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#121

Post by nnq »

throwaway055 wrote: post #82
svendisnigh wrote: post #13

Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts. Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, t…

I've heard Palantir is maybe the most credentials-/prestige-focused tech company in Silicon Valley. I remember thinking that sounds like a good way to build a below-average team that seems very impressive from the outside. When you look at what they're doing, this strategy actually starts to make a lot of sense. They're selling a product that's somewhat incomprehensible. The value of that product is very difficult to…

> credentials and prestige are something tangible you can point to and prove you did your job

Like in "nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM"? Seems like they've just copied a page from an the old book... and this still works, and lots of more competent startups who could do their jobs better will not get those contracts.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#122

Post by kayoone »

halflings wrote: post #114
bm1362 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Java/Spring an issue here? Guess what powers Amazon, Google, Apple etc.

Not Java/Spring? Google at least is known to use C/C++ for its backend. Python is (or was?) used in YouTube.

Google had and has a lot of Java, see GWT. It might not be hip anymore, but its still widely used in a lot of backend environments.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#123

Post by nulldev »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #86
tritium wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

outdated software stack ... no meaningful ML/AI strategy Yeah, because not being buzzwordy enough is just SO much more important than having meaningful products and services that fulfill a vital role.

ML is extremely relevant to what Palantir does, particularly on the broad-scale analysis stuff they purport to do. Extremely relevant. It is surprising to read that they don't have a strategy -- not weighing in on whether that's accurate or passing judgment, just saying it's a more surprising observation than you're implying.

100%. I suspect the original statement is actually laden with a fair amount of bias : Palantir unequivocally does have an ML strategy given that they're selling data analysis in 2017. It's literally unthinkable that they don't.

Whether that strategy is well reasoned and sophisticated is a completely different matter - but to imply that said strategy doesn't even exist is deeply misleading / straight up wrong.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#124

Post by egwor »

tp3z4u wrote: post #19
svendisnigh wrote: post #13

Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts. Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, t…

I have friends that work there and say the same thing. I turned down a job there a long time ago, I did ontologies academically so I already knew they didn't work for what they were trying to do.

What's 'ontologies academically'?

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#125

Post by cthalupa »

halflings wrote: post #114
bm1362 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Java/Spring an issue here? Guess what powers Amazon, Google, Apple etc.

Not Java/Spring? Google at least is known to use C/C++ for its backend. Python is (or was?) used in YouTube.

I dunno about Spring in specific, but a quick search for 'java' on amazon.jobs brings back ~2700 open positions. The google search doesn't seem to give a total. Apple brings up ~500.

Java is huge in a lot of places.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#126

Post by krona »

Maxious wrote: post #27
kendallpark wrote: post #14

> The department has created a new system to replace Palantir. > The new system, named Cobalt, is a group of IBM products tied together with NYPD-created software. You really have to wonder about the quality of this internal product. From what I've gleaned about Palantir over the years, they supposedly have one of the hardest dev interview processes. People that work there are on top of their game. My gut feel is tha…

IBM acquired a company called i2 in 2011 that already was a competitor to Palantir for defence/law enforcement analysis https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/35255.wss Even if you don't have the roughest and toughest devs in the market, surely spending more time with NYPD than the Palantir FDEs (are engineers part of the skeleton staff mentioned in the article?) would get a more valuable result?

Actually i2 was 20 years old when it was acquired, and it was the dominant law enforcement investigative analysis product in the US at the time. Palantir were the hotshots.

Of particular note was when i2 Group took Palantir to court for a conspiracy to misappropriate its software and trade secrets. They settled out of court (for a huge sum of money.) IBM swooped in soon after.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#127

Post by krona »

Everyone is focusing on Palantir. As someone who knows how much IBM has thrown at this over the past 2 years, it's really IBM and their historically strong relationship with the NYPD that is the real (but far more mundane) story.

Ultimately, if you piss off the IBM execs enough (which is what Palantir is exceptionally good at), then IBM will mobilize a significant chunk of the company to obliterate anything in its wake. Even if that means making a huge loss.

They then try to use that win as a template for future success. Unfortunately IBM is incapable at that since the harsh reality is its software division is just a bunch of incoherent acquisitions who can't generally collaborate.

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#128

Post by nl »

Spooky23 wrote: post #33
tyingq wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says NYPD did the development. "group of IBM products tied together with NYPD-created software"

Smells like Watson came to town.

This is Analyst's Notebook, plus other things (some of them maybe branded as Watson)

Re: NYPD is canceling its Palantir contract

#129

Post by phreeza »

svendisnigh wrote: post #13

Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts. Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, t…

> Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse).

A trick now being repeated by Cambridge Analytica. The press eat up the story of "Big Data stole the election", and they do their part acting a bit dodgy, and presto they have that reputation and are probably getting buried in cash.

Nobody wants to admit working with them so if they fail to fulfill their promise, nobody finds out. If they do end up on the winning side, the collaboration gets "leaked"...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/us/politics/cambridge-ana...

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