Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#521

Post by nashashmi » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:43 AM UTC

Isn't there an inherent culture among men that dates all the way back to middle school, high school, and college that somewhat sets the tone for inappropriate behavior later in life?

These kinds of behaviours happen a lot and begin at a very young age. And they seem to be okayed by nearly everyone then. Why don't these things stop before they begin? I almost feel sorry for the men in these stories because the rules seem to have changed on them at some point and nobody told them when.

Let's be clear! These actions are not ok in any work setting at any work level in any industry in any situation of diversity or lack thereof. Further, these actions are not ok in college, in high school, or middle school and in any area of education.

Today the focus is on the investment industry, but it happens everywhere, from the bar to restaurants to company meetings. And these articles need to do generalize the environment beyond startup valley. Everyone should be put on alert. Even bystanders.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#522

Post by mirimir » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:44 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #468

angstrom wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High functioning sociopaths. A person can be an asshole and not know it. A sociopath knows they're not acting within acceptable social norms and hides it. These investors are sociopaths. An asshole will make a comment and not deny it. A sociopath will try to twist it into a seemingly logical action ie "I was just trying to get rid of her because I didn't like her idea." By that logic who knows how many Jehovah's witn…

> By that logic who knows how many Jehovah's witnesses this person groped and/or fucked. I'd love to know what you mean here, because I can't see how this follows anything .

To get rid of them. Me, I start going on about the benefits of trepanning, and invite them out to the workshop ;)

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#523

Post by morgante » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:46 AM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #519

morgante wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal strategy is to avoid flirting with or hitting on anyone from the same industry entirely, but I think it's pretty restrictive. People want to have common interests with their partners, and both working in tech is a common interest so I can understand why people pursue it. It's quite clear that hitting on a subordinate is unacceptable, but when you don't work together it's a lot less clear. Would flirting w…

"Would flirting with someone at a conference party be harassment? " People have been evicted from conferences and lost their jobs for using 'inappropriate' language that some one passing by happened to hear.So yes, I would think this is a dangerous thing to do, and possibly a violation of the conference's code of conduct if it has one.

I agree it's dangerous, but it also happens literally all the time. Do you think nobody hooks up at SXSW?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#524

Post by benevol » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:48 AM UTC

epalmer wrote: post #494

dkarl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cringe is the wrong word. We cringe when we watch The Office and see people make social mistakes without meaning to. These are not unwitting social mistakes. This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Furthermore, not having met any of these people but speculating based on my experience, I would guess that their motivations go beyond just looking for sex and knowing that one ti…

I wonder how many people in power or have strong influence are psychopaths or sociopaths. I've had the misfortune to observe a psychopath in the workplace and in this case they touch people a lot. They touch people of the opposite sex more than same sex but they touch a lot of people. I wonder what is being said behind closed doors. I have friend who is an employment lawyer. When I first asked her what she does she s…

It actually goes in both directions:

Statistics have shown for a while now that psychopaths or sociopaths are drawn to positions of power and are therefor overrepresented in those positions.

On the other hand, excessive power (== money) often brings the worst out of us, as power appeals to our (sick/immature) need to dominate those around us (on a personal or even global scale). Domination can act like a drug. And once the brain is hooked on that drug, it's hard to go clean again.

Excessive power (== money) takes a lot of maturity to be handled ethically. Obviously, a lot of people fail hard.

Which is why our society should fight any type of inequality until it's completely gone.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#525

Post by hanspeter » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:49 AM UTC

bt4u2 wrote: post #497

matt4077 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know if it is appropriate to say, don't. don't don't. > but I think overt preference in hiring females is one of the biggest cause. nope. inappropriate. > Almost every tech company hire women with less qualifications to improve the the diversity. Wrong Wrong Wrong > I know it is for the best, but in personal experience, it is very spoken thing between some males. It isn't. >"I was getting confused figuring…

Why are comments like this allowed? Putting fingers in your ears and scream "no!!!" over and over is not very useful or constructive

Some statements are so fundamentally wrong, this is really the only way to respond.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#526

Post by fjfkdjfjfjd » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:51 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #496

fjfkdjfjfjd wrote: post #489

This is a little off-topic so mods, please flag/move as needed. (Wasn't sure if I should make this an Ask HN or not). I feel I may be a victim of a false accusation of sexual harassment. I am really not sure how to proceed at this point. I have not put up a fight for fear that I could loose my job (which may already be in the works at this point). Management has not used the term "sexual harassment", only the verbiag…

Take legal advice, not HN advice.

Good idea! Thank you! Being this is an internship ending in a few months, I feel it might not be worth it, but definitely in the future, when a permanent position or clean criminal history may be at stake, I think a legal consultation would be appropriate. I just wonder, is there anything I can do to reduce such risk other than just being extremely cautious when speaking to women?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#527

Post by morgante » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:53 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #518

bt4u wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there? Please explain them to me. I'm serious and want to learn

I'm not saying what sokoloff said is wrong (or doesn't work) but I'd not invite a woman (or a person) to coffee before getting a physical approval. This physical approval (eye contact + smile) is usually a certain indicator of interest. I'm talking about same level co-worker. I'd not go with a co-worker that I have power on (like being the direct manager, or the VC). I can see many ways where the relationship can go…

How do you get physical approval without flirting?

I have eye contact and smiling with lots of people. It's just being friendly.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#528

Post by plinkplonk » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:53 AM UTC

morgante wrote: post #523

plinkplonk wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Would flirting with someone at a conference party be harassment? " People have been evicted from conferences and lost their jobs for using 'inappropriate' language that some one passing by happened to hear.So yes, I would think this is a dangerous thing to do, and possibly a violation of the conference's code of conduct if it has one.

I agree it's dangerous, but it also happens literally all the time. Do you think nobody hooks up at SXSW?

I made no comment on whether such things 'happen all the time' or not. They probably do (and remain potentially dangerous for the careers of people who do).

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#529

Post by fjfkdjfjfjd » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:53 AM UTC

fjfkdjfjfjd wrote: post #489

This is a little off-topic so mods, please flag/move as needed. (Wasn't sure if I should make this an Ask HN or not). I feel I may be a victim of a false accusation of sexual harassment. I am really not sure how to proceed at this point. I have not put up a fight for fear that I could loose my job (which may already be in the works at this point). Management has not used the term "sexual harassment", only the verbiag…

I posted this to Ask HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=14676115

Feel free to comment there. Sorry for the not-so-related spam on this original post.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#530

Post by morgante » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 8:59 AM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #528

morgante wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's dangerous, but it also happens literally all the time. Do you think nobody hooks up at SXSW?

I made no comment on whether such things 'happen all the time' or not. They probably do (and remain potentially dangerous for the careers of people who do).

My point is that saying they're dangerous (and we shouldn't do them) is not really helpful, since humans being humans we'll likely still do it. Instead, I'd like to think of ways to reduce the harm and make the dynamics less problematic.

Like, in theory coworkers should never date but in practice that's impossible to enforce. So many companies instead enforce a ban on relationships down the chain of command, which is both workable and addresses the biggest power dynamic.