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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#481

Post by manfredo »

watwut wrote: post #440

> a volunteer organization who went directly from "I don't think I can see a movie tonight" to "This situation is making me uncomfortable" with nothing in between. She tried to tell you gently in the way girls are taught to reject men while still being nice to them. If you reject dude other way, some tend to t get insulted anyway. You did not get it, so she informed you flat out about how she really think about the s…

Communications that are subtle and ambiguous are highly likely to be misinterpreted, and it is not reasonable to assume that the recipient reached the intended conclusion. Depending on what the above poster meant by escalating to "This situation is making me uncomfortable" I may or may not agree with the above commenter's statement that the person being approached acted irrationally.

If the person being approached followed up the ambiguous rejection with something along the lines of, "I don't want to go out with you, please do not approach me again" then that's a totally reasonable response; it's escalating from a soft "no" to a hard "no".

If the person being approach said something to the effect of, "you're harassing me with repeated advances after a rejection" then I'd consider that behavior to be irrational. The person who approached communicated denial in a very ambiguous manner that could easily be interpreted as asking for an alternate time to go out. It isn't rational to call a co-worker a harasser for asking somebody out after giving an ambiguous denial. Granted, if they continued to make approaches after giving an unambiguous denial, like the one written in the 2nd paragraph, then by all means this is harassment.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#482

Post by TeMPOraL »

rtpg wrote: post #86
5thaccount wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

Any VC whose reaction to this is "oh I guess I should avoid taking meetings with women because I just can't know what goof will cause me to get sued" is probably already making some women uncomfortable. If you cannot understand how _stupidly easy_ it is to have a completely non-sexual, non-harassing conversation with a member of the opposite sex, you most definitely should read up on some stuff. I mean this in the mo…

The risk is that some go-getter will use a harassment thread as leverage over you. No matter how saintly are you, in the current culture nobody is going to believe you if you're a man accused of harassment - so why open yourself up for the possibility?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#484

Post by matt4077 »

likelynew wrote: post #478

I don't know if it is appropriate to say, but I think overt preference in hiring females is one of the biggest cause. Almost every tech company hire women with less qualifications to improve the the diversity. I know it is for the best, but in personal experience, it is very spoken thing between some males. Few interpret inside their head that the females are for them. I think it is evident even in snippets of this a…

> I don't know if it is appropriate to say,

don't. don't don't.

> but I think overt preference in hiring females is one of the biggest cause.

nope. inappropriate.

> Almost every tech company hire women with less qualifications to improve the the diversity.

Wrong Wrong Wrong

> I know it is for the best, but in personal experience, it is very spoken thing between some males.

It isn't.

>"I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you." It kind of means that she is not qualified to be hired...

No it fucking doesn't. It only means the guy doing the hiring wasn't qualified to be hired.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#485

Post by morgante »

sokoloff wrote: post #351
bt4u wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there? Please explain them to me. I'm serious and want to learn

(Assuming no supervisory relationship or other power imbalance,) Make an introduction. Make your mild/budding interest in them clear enough. Ask them to do something that's clearly not work with you. "Hey, want to get coffee sometime this weekend?" You'll find out if there's preliminary interest or not. If they're interested but busy, they'll figure out how to make that distinction clear. If "sorry; I'm busy" is the…

Unfortunately, it's not quite that easy. Sometimes it's not clear that you're asking them on a date. Ex. I've asked a professional associate out for drinks. I thought it was a date, she didn't, and she was offended when I tried to flirt a little. (I stopped once I realized she wasn't interested, but it could have been offensive.)

Personally, I've stopped ever pursuing anyone who works in the same industry due to the potential for weird dynamics, but it's sometimes not as cut-and-dry as people make it sound. Like the example with Chris Sacca, is flirting with someone at a conference a form of sexual harassment?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#486

Post by tajen »

voidlogic wrote: post #113
ronilan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. Never attribute to rational decision making what can be attributed to rotten character.

>Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. To be fair, even an asshole may show some restraint when they have a clear understanding of consequences. Thinking their money buys them immunity from consequence is an enabler as they don't believe they have the slightest need for this kind of rational self-interest. You are both right, an asshole is an asshole as you suggest, but even so, assholes ar…

Men need to work hard to jail those assholes, here's why: They are the reason why men are described as generally threatening, discrediting and imposing huge constraints in advance on all men who show proper social restraint and respect for women.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#487

Post by [deleted] »

noir_lord wrote: post #100
rtpg wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any VC whose reaction to this is "oh I guess I should avoid taking meetings with women because I just can't know what goof will cause me to get sued" is probably already making some women uncomfortable. If you cannot understand how _stupidly easy_ it is to have a completely non-sexual, non-harassing conversation with a member of the opposite sex, you most definitely should read up on some stuff. I mean this in the mo…

Sales at my company is female dominated, I'm in building next door so I run into them all the time, I just treat them as any other member of staff, politely but otherwise as an amorphous blob. I don't socialise with work mates outside of work events either, lines get crossed when you do in a alcohol orientated culture like mine. It's worked fine for me for 19 years employed. Had one female former colleague assume I w…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#488

Post by abalone »

stcredzero wrote: post #257
mintplant wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. Who would've thought that allowing wealthy frat bro types* to run amok, wield power over others, and construct cults of personality would engender a culture of sexism and abuse? (* I'm not, of course, attempting to excuse any who may not fit this profile.)

Huh. Who would've thought that allowing wealthy frat bro types to run amok, wield power over others, and construct cults of personality would engender a culture of sexism and abuse?* Power is a dangerous thing. This is why we must also be careful of the power in evidence-free accusations and abrogation of "innocent until guilty." Not saying that is necessarily happening here. However, such urging to "listen and belie…

> we must also be careful of the power in evidence-free accusations and abrogation of "innocent until guilty." Not saying that is necessarily happening here.

But you are strongly implying it. In a case where many of the men admitted their guilt, nonetheless. Your comment is just "men's rights" activist talking points.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#489

Post by fjfkdjfjfjd »

This is a little off-topic so mods, please flag/move as needed. (Wasn't sure if I should make this an Ask HN or not).

I feel I may be a victim of a false accusation of sexual harassment. I am really not sure how to proceed at this point. I have not put up a fight for fear that I could loose my job (which may already be in the works at this point). Management has not used the term "sexual harassment", only the verbiage that "I have made a female employee feel uncomfortable".

As I am currently in a temporary internship position due to end in a few months, I am not so concerned about this job, but this experience has made me very concerned about being falsely accused in the future of sexual harassment or rape. Should I just avoid all interaction with women at work completely? How would I do this with a female boss? (refusing to meet with her in private?)

Any advice is welcome.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#490

Post by morgante »

rorykoehler wrote: post #416
home_boi wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like many men have a problem with rejection and accepting no Women don't have the burden of having to initiate relationships and chase after potential partners

Men don't either.

Yes, being single forever is indeed an option.

Men should learn to deal with rejection, but let's not pretend that they don't have the burden of initiating. I've literally never been asked out by a woman in my life.

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