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McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

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Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#111

Post by bitL »

titanomachy wrote: post #51
thanksgiving wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this sexual harassment? It sounds like calling a party where the food is bad "literally Auschwitz". Reverse the genders. Is this still sexual harassment? If not, then this isn't sexual harassment either. I still think this is in poor taste. The attempts to defend it is worse. However, let us commit to refraining from calling it sexual harassment until it is sexual harassment. Calling this sexual harassment is like…

It's sexual harassment. As a male, I would be incredibly uncomfortable if I were in this situation with the genders reversed. Picture: you're interviewing for a job you're wildly enthusiastic about. The hiring decision lies with an older woman who you are not at all attracted to, and she fires off that line at you. Who would feel comfortable in that situation?

It happened to me multiple times, because I am an attractive male. Having conversations with a female boss like "oh, my shoe is too tight, let's go to my hotel room together to change it" etc. Sometimes I think medieval-style gender separation is the best thing for business...

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#112

Post by mhluongo »

anindha wrote: post #108
mhluongo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he come up with "paid, laid, or made"? I've heard it from sales people and thought it predated McClure. The kitten and "money shot" is absolutely unnecessary, but I get the coarse language for "paid, made, laid"- the idea is that compelling products and services target base desires.

I think the most compelling products deliver utility. Even if targeting base desires is your product design strategy doesn't mean it needs to be in a template for future founders to follow. Your argument is similar to the argument for having swimsuit models in tabloid newspapers. NYT is a better product.

I'm not claiming he's right. I'm just responding that it's a useful idea, and that the language makes sense to reinforce the idea.

Edit: aside, it's interesting (and frustrating) that comments on HN are often assumed to be arguments. Here for a discussion, not to defend a thesis.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#113

Post by superplussed »

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #98

Oh and he referenced his penis size at a startup event: https://twitter.com/founderofstick/status/880977488494469122 Sarah Kunst, the woman quoted in the NYT, mentions that other women have reached out to her about McClure. Like Caldwell, also all women of color: https://twitter.com/sarahkunst/status/881004317674577920

I saw him speak at a fireside chat here in Berlin, and was struck by his overall juvenile attitude and idiocy. Given that that was his "shtick" I guess he was just hiding in plain sight. But I'm surprised that his poor judgement is such a shock to people when it's evident from his performances in public.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#114

Post by timcederman »

plinkplonk wrote: post #105

something I've never understood. These guys (Kalanick, McClure) are multi millionaires, and could probably get any number of women to take interest in them on that basis alone. Why risk career suicide? Why would they need to hit on women at their workplaces ? Why isn't the normal dating game (where they have a massive edge via being loaded) sufficient? I don't get it (at all). What am I missing? These guys seem to be…

> get any number of women to take interest in them on that basis alone

Seriously?

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#115

Post by gcatalfamo »

Without defending anyone, My honest takeout by the whole sexual harassment threshold in the bay area or the US in general is that you could never end up together or even married with a colleague in that paranoid atmosphere.

Which is exactly what I did where I live in Italy. Happily married and yes, after saying things to a colleague of mine that would have made me accused in the bay area.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#116

Post by TeMPOraL »

anindha wrote: post #108
mhluongo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he come up with "paid, laid, or made"? I've heard it from sales people and thought it predated McClure. The kitten and "money shot" is absolutely unnecessary, but I get the coarse language for "paid, made, laid"- the idea is that compelling products and services target base desires.

I think the most compelling products deliver utility. Even if targeting base desires is your product design strategy doesn't mean it needs to be in a template for future founders to follow. Your argument is similar to the argument for having swimsuit models in tabloid newspapers. NYT is a better product.

> I think the most compelling products deliver utility.

> Your argument is similar to the argument for having swimsuit models in tabloid newspapers. NYT is a better product.

The argument is right, because better (as in NYT vs. tabloids, or as in better in worse-is-better) products don't win on market. If you can target base desires, you'll beat products delivering utility.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#117

Post by origami777 »

TheCondor wrote: post #33
origami777 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment (could've been worded better). Without clarification it seems like people are assuming the worst. Given Dave's reputation that doesn't seem fair. Hopefully the community will get some clarification so that those who work(ed) with Dave can make an informed judgement call for themselves about how to proceed with their relationship. Edit: added parenthesis to first sentence.

Women reported it, right? The Times article describes it. Women seeking jobs were propositioned and then denied jobs after rebuffing, sexist comments were made while they were fund raising and suggestive texts were sent. It doesn't seem like rape level stuff but it's still bad and unacceptable. It's never a good idea to approach someone romantically if there is some kind of superior/subordinate relationship. it just…

Ah I didn't see that article. Only saw the techcrunch one.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#118

Post by [deleted] »

TheCondor wrote: post #33
origami777 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment (could've been worded better). Without clarification it seems like people are assuming the worst. Given Dave's reputation that doesn't seem fair. Hopefully the community will get some clarification so that those who work(ed) with Dave can make an informed judgement call for themselves about how to proceed with their relationship. Edit: added parenthesis to first sentence.

Women reported it, right? The Times article describes it. Women seeking jobs were propositioned and then denied jobs after rebuffing, sexist comments were made while they were fund raising and suggestive texts were sent. It doesn't seem like rape level stuff but it's still bad and unacceptable. It's never a good idea to approach someone romantically if there is some kind of superior/subordinate relationship. it just…

[deleted]

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#119

Post by westoncb »

anindha wrote: post #90
rmason wrote: post #2

The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…

I have seen questionable material come from him [1]: Examples: "Money Shot" with kitten spreadings its legs and "Great Products...Get you LAID". [1] https://www.slideshare.net/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-vc-or-a... edit: link directly to slides and deleted nested comment.

I haven't looked into McClure's offenses beyond what the article talks about, but those slides seem totally innocent to me (it's a joke targeted at VCs more than anything else), which just makes him seem less guilty in this context ('cause why not just use real evidence then?). No comment on his actual guilt.

This quote from the linked article (from Chris Sacca) seems apt:

Over the last week, I have spoken with friends, friends of friends, heard from people from my past including stories of how I’d behaved, and read incredibly thoughtful and courageous essays. I’ve learned that it’s often the less obvious, yet pervasive and questionable, everyday behaviors of men in our industry that collectively make it inhospitable for women.

There is definitely a pervasive issue here in software culture as it relates to women, and maybe singling out and punishing individuals is the only way to combat it—but my first inclination when making moral judgements is to consider intent. When I see those slides above, I see the work of someone whose 'filter' and sensitivity to not offending people is lower than average. I do not see immoral activity, however.

I will gladly look at more info. on McClure's offenses if anyone wants to share—and I'm perfectly aware he may not be an instance of what I'm about to mention here—but, we recognize there is a systemic issue with gender equality in software which needs to be fixed, but is there maybe a better strategy than punishing individuals who get caught displaying symptoms of the admitted, systemic issue? (or do we retract the claim that there's a systemic issue? —cause those things are at odds: is it the fault of the culture these people are a part of, or have they personally done something egregious? We could mistakenly go too far in either direction, but maybe our aim will be better if that part of the issue is at least considered...)

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#120

Post by kelnos »

drunkenmonkey wrote: post #38
rmason wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is particularly telling for me that instead of trying to explain himself he just ran away. Sometimes if you rally around someone reflexively you're empowering a predator. Justin Calbeck got at least two passes we know about previous to his current troubles. At my alma mater there's a doctor who had people covering for him for fifteen years until a brave woman accused him publicly of sexually assaulting her durin…

On the contra side of this is Trevor Fitzgibbon, who was accused of sexual assault, had the investigation dropped, and yet is nonetheless blackballed by the PR industry. Again, those whose minds are stuck on repeat -- whose own minds trap them into believing women over men -- are fools who should not be heeded. Like Nazis who sing hymns while Jews are marched to the gas chambers. The idiocy is real, and the effects o…

That's a general problem with people's tendency to pass judgment on things where they have no first-hand experience. There are lots of people who have been accused of crimes, have later been exonerated, but in the process the court of public opinion has already crucified them. At that point it's too late: the public will never admit it was wrong.

I'm not sure what we do about that. People who actually do bad things should be held accountable for them. Our "innocent until proven guilty" system is nice in theory, but the end result in the eyes of the public usually ends up being "guilty until proven innocent, but still guilty".

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