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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#331

Post by bt4u »

bobdole1234 wrote: post #254
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many people like that, and no, they don't derive an enjoyable power trip out of being rejected at all. Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it . These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desireable. They think that this is how the game is played, and these things are a form of peacocking. They th…

I think you're completely neglecting the fact that there is a large contingent of women that this behavior WORKS LIKE CATNIP ON. There is a reason why a huge amount of porn in the world (and porn made for women) about boss / secretary, teacher / student, rich person / poor person, mentor / underling power imbalances: it's a major part of our sexuality as social animals. So, these men have often gone through life bein…

Absolutely, and I believe it's why they're so hated by male feminists: they're supposed to be as sexually frustrated as they are, so they try to use shaming to achieve this even though it won't work.

Society might change, but biology takes longer. It's a successful mating strategy today, and it will be successful a thousand years from now, regardless of the kicking and screaming.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#333

Post by obstinate »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #309
geofft wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a good start if he came to this realization on his own, instead of right after being contacted by the New York Times going "Hey, we're going to publish a story about your sexual harassment, do you want to dispute this account".

People make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes go back years, and sometimes a sudden traumatic event can snap someone out of the patterns of behavior they fell into. The point is that it's probably a mistake to treat him the same way you'd treat certain kinds of felons. Part of that is to give him an opportunity to contribute in a positive way to the world, like everyone else. If he's genuine, then isn't there some w…

Normally people have to do some penance before forgiveness, especially as the crimes grow more heinous. Continuing to live the rich and privileged life you were leading before, more or less untouched by the hand of justice, does not count for much in this dimension.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#334

Post by bt4u »

stale2002 wrote: post #229
chrischen wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point holds as long as false accusations are possible. Women, like men, are not all angels. Sexism, or even patriarchy, has no gender.

False accusations are basically not possible though. The people getting in trouble right now are not the borderline cases of someone saying an awkward comment here or there. The people getting in trouble are the serial harassers who are so egregiously bad that a multitude of incidents are documented. Your big standard subtle sexist or tech douche bro has nothing to worry about.

Fake accusations are not possible? You're absolutely insane!

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#335

Post by BoiledCabbage »

voidlogic wrote: post #113
ronilan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. Never attribute to rational decision making what can be attributed to rotten character.

>Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. To be fair, even an asshole may show some restraint when they have a clear understanding of consequences. Thinking their money buys them immunity from consequence is an enabler as they don't believe they have the slightest need for this kind of rational self-interest. You are both right, an asshole is an asshole as you suggest, but even so, assholes ar…

I think it's important to distinguish that these aren't people who are necessarily assholes to everyone. They have plenty of friends and acquaintances who would never believe they'd do something like this. And others who upon hearing it, would've assumed it was a harmless misunderstanding.

I think one of the larger problems that society is struggling with is the idea that two different people can be in very similar proximity, interact with the same people and yet one can have to suffer through radically different (and horrible) treatment.

The reason I believe this is so difficult, is the other person legitimately think "I know that person, I know that place, I've gone through that and I've never seen anything remotely close to that." And reasonably conclude that it didn't happen. It's difficult to accept that there is an entire world that they don't ever experience.

But we all need a find a way to account for this, because too many people go through beimg mistreated and their concerns are simply dismissed.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#336

Post by [deleted] »

obstinate wrote: post #333
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes go back years, and sometimes a sudden traumatic event can snap someone out of the patterns of behavior they fell into. The point is that it's probably a mistake to treat him the same way you'd treat certain kinds of felons. Part of that is to give him an opportunity to contribute in a positive way to the world, like everyone else. If he's genuine, then isn't there some w…

Normally people have to do some penance before forgiveness, especially as the crimes grow more heinous. Continuing to live the rich and privileged life you were leading before, more or less untouched by the hand of justice, does not count for much in this dimension.

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#337

Post by snikolic »

Made me think of this NYT article from 2010 which mentions the fundraising experience of a female CEO/Founder. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/technology/18women.html

Some gross anecdotes about Bay Area VCs showing naked pictures of themselves, asking about her husband's sexual performance, etc.

(For the record, the company she was trying to fund has been quite successful.)

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#338

Post by bt4u »

cyphunk wrote: post #35
5thaccount wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

this response would be as short lived as it is short sighted -- not taking into account that eventually.soon their bias would be measurable and again turn into ethical and PR nightmares for VC's that dont find a way to manage their male problem

"their male problem"?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#339

Post by ithinkinstereo »

GuiA wrote: post #78
Apocryphon wrote: post #15

How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?

The answer to your question, as other commenters are pointing out, is in the "seem". They seem to have less flagrant issues, but that's just appearances. While tech still has a very long way to go, at least speaking up is becoming acceptable, and won't bar you from the industry for life. An Uber engineer who speaks up will never work for Uber again, but she can still find work in the industry (if she so desires). Som…

You're absolutely correct about being "marked" on Wall Street.

Unlike tech, most professional services (banking/consulting/law), don't require particularly skill, but rather the right pedigree, connections, and social background.

Getting a job in IBD at a bulge bracket means years of striving: the right schools, the right social networks, the right way of "talking", the right "look". The rewards are massive: $100-200-300K bonuses even as a young analyst is the the norm. Loyalty, being able to "eat shit", etc are the traits most admired on the street. Being a "troublemaker" and speaking out against harassment (not even just sexual in nature, but just plain bullying/hazing) earns you the label as "weak" and out of a job. If you've been striving all your life for one of these coveted jobs, you can imagine the immense pressure to grit it out, collect your fat bonus, and drink, snort, and purchase-expensive-toys your stresses away.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#340

Post by ridruejo »

ronilan wrote: post #95
dkarl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cringe is the wrong word. We cringe when we watch The Office and see people make social mistakes without meaning to. These are not unwitting social mistakes. This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Furthermore, not having met any of these people but speculating based on my experience, I would guess that their motivations go beyond just looking for sex and knowing that one ti…

> This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. Never attribute to rational decision making what can be attributed to rotten character.

They act that way because the other person is in a vulnerable position. Most of them will shrink pretty fast when confronted by someone who is not. So they are "selective assholes" so to speak.
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