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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#171

Post by bdamm »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #162
bdamm wrote: post #144

I have a confession to make. With few exceptions, I cannot work with a woman without thinking about having sex with her. It's not like I'm trying, it's more like the thought is a blinking red light and I can't help but look at the thought. Then I realize the thought is absurd, but it's already happened. This normally doesn't leak out, but for some women, I will give them "eyes" and usually feel bad about it afterward…

Does the red-light blink around your sister or Mom? Put your female colleagues in the sister compartment of your brain.

Maybe this is easier if you've had a sister. I never did. And I can't sit across the table from a skin-flashing admin assistant and think of her like my mom, who is in her 70s. It doesn't work.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#172

Post by dang »

oh_sigh wrote: post #116

There was a constant murmur(or was it a constant shouting) of hate crimes performed in the name of Trump shortly after the election, but almost all of them turned out to be hoax hate crimes perpetrated by the victims. I'm not saying that is the case with sexism in SV, which certainly exists - I am merely saying that people claiming something usually isn't enough proof alone that something is happening. Of course, you…

Partisan political tangents definitely aren't going to help here.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674213 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#173

Post by tuna-piano »

dragonwriter wrote: post #79
drenvuk wrote: post #64

How much of this is actually illegal? In workplaces you have legal recourse but in this situation it doesn't seem like there's anything you can do except blast their name out there for everyone to see.

The groping is probably illegal independent of workplace context, the stuff done in hiring is as illegal as if it was done during employment, much of rest is probably not illegal.

I'm not commenting on the ethics of this, but the woman who was "groped" stated that she consented to it. I know this may seem distasteful, but whether she allows the kissing/groping because she's attracted to him or because she just needs his help, it's still consent in my mind:

"I felt like I had to tolerate it because this is the cost of being a nonwhite female founder,"

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#174

Post by [deleted] »

bdamm wrote: post #144

I have a confession to make. With few exceptions, I cannot work with a woman without thinking about having sex with her. It's not like I'm trying, it's more like the thought is a blinking red light and I can't help but look at the thought. Then I realize the thought is absurd, but it's already happened. This normally doesn't leak out, but for some women, I will give them "eyes" and usually feel bad about it afterward…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#175

Post by passive »

bdamm wrote: post #144

I have a confession to make. With few exceptions, I cannot work with a woman without thinking about having sex with her. It's not like I'm trying, it's more like the thought is a blinking red light and I can't help but look at the thought. Then I realize the thought is absurd, but it's already happened. This normally doesn't leak out, but for some women, I will give them "eyes" and usually feel bad about it afterward…

I'm not a mind reader, but all men think this way to some degree. For myself, I don't possess a visual imagination, so the thoughts don't stick, but they do re-occur. However, I also have no difficulty ensuring this doesn't interfere with my relationships with my co-workers. I know whatever ideas I have are just transient thoughts, and there will never be a point where acting on them is worth the damage I might do.

Of course, as a disclaimer, I telecommute, so I'm rarely in physical contact with the women I work with. I'm also a Buddhist, so I have a lot of practice letting my thoughts go.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#176

Post by venning »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #162
bdamm wrote: post #144

I have a confession to make. With few exceptions, I cannot work with a woman without thinking about having sex with her. It's not like I'm trying, it's more like the thought is a blinking red light and I can't help but look at the thought. Then I realize the thought is absurd, but it's already happened. This normally doesn't leak out, but for some women, I will give them "eyes" and usually feel bad about it afterward…

Does the red-light blink around your sister or Mom? Put your female colleagues in the sister compartment of your brain.

The Westermarck effect attempts to explain why that is not a simple mental adjustment. It's a theory, but it states "people who live in close domestic proximity during the first few years of their lives become desensitized to sexual attraction." [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#177

Post by nickpsecurity »

nitwit005 wrote: post #99
andyburke wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you working that you can reasonably imagine this happening? The risks of someone making this claim are so, so high, yet you believe someone would do this just to 'settle unrelated personal scores'?

You'd think we wouldn't need a security camera in our break room to stop people from stealing other people's food, but we do. People do all sorts of petty crap. If you expect rational behavior, you're going to be disappointed.

I envy that. I eat out or hide my food just because they won't put a camera in ours. Too much stuff stolen. I did get a thief once by putting a special ingredient in it then leaving it clearly marked with large letters and warning. They probably thought, "Screw him. He can't prove nothing." Jokes on him. :)

Just did it once, though. I put a lot of effort into avoiding harming innocent people. The bar is getting lower and people are often tired so someone might grab it thinking it was a sample or something. Just too tired to be smart or something. So, continuing to avoid the fridge except looking for any freebies company provides. :)

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#178

Post by tomjakubowski »

mikeash wrote: post #114
5thaccount wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

The good ol' "I don't want to be accused of a crime, so I'll preemptively commit a crime" defense. I would strongly advise against discriminating against people based on their sex in the course of your business dealings.

Is sexual discrimination in business actually a crime in the US? I thought it was typically handled in civil court.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#179

Post by geofft »

bdamm wrote: post #144

I have a confession to make. With few exceptions, I cannot work with a woman without thinking about having sex with her. It's not like I'm trying, it's more like the thought is a blinking red light and I can't help but look at the thought. Then I realize the thought is absurd, but it's already happened. This normally doesn't leak out, but for some women, I will give them "eyes" and usually feel bad about it afterward…

A bit out of left field, but you might enjoy the book Every Man's Battle, written from a conservative Christian perspective, about exactly this problem. (The Christian man's problem with this inclination is that Jesus said, more or less, that making "eyes" at a woman is as sinful as actually committing adultery with her.)

As a not-particularly-conservative Christian, I kind of hated the book. Among other things it's got a sort of warped view of the problems with non-consensual interactions / objectifying women (there's one particular scene where there's a youth group leader and a member who's literally too young to consent, and the book puts more emphasis on the youth group leader being unfaithful to his wife than on him statutorily raping the kid). I also got the distinct feeling that I have this problem far less than any of the people in this book. But a number of friends have told me that they got a lot out of the book, so, maybe it'll resonate with you.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#180

Post by nnfy »

bdamm wrote: post #144

I have a confession to make. With few exceptions, I cannot work with a woman without thinking about having sex with her. It's not like I'm trying, it's more like the thought is a blinking red light and I can't help but look at the thought. Then I realize the thought is absurd, but it's already happened. This normally doesn't leak out, but for some women, I will give them "eyes" and usually feel bad about it afterward…

How incredibly odd, it is almost as though we are, perhaps, driven by biological imperative to find members of the other sex attractive. I'll just let myself out with these crazy conspiracy theories.

In seriousness, I'm pointing out the absurdity of being so surprised that this kind of thing still exists. We are fighting one of the most fundamental drives of not only the human race, but [non asexual] life itself.

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