Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
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Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#2Because implementing an Idea is most of the time harder than having an Idea
And becausing aquiring the knowledge to implement the Idea is also a lot harder than the effort needed to aquire an Idea
Finally, I think because people who do and know how to do are so preocupied with the tuff-ness of implementing the Idea they sometimes loose enthusiam and in many way this sometimes ties them down or set them back a little, and it the worry free business student just irritates them
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#3"Further, many business students are aggressive and gregarious, many programmers are socially awkward..."
I can generally agree with the article, but the old, old stereotypes aren't really helping, are they? I see very few "socially awkward" programmers in my work. They might not be game-show hosts, but they're not Rain Man either. As the author points out in the footnote, if you can master computing arcana, you can pick up the basic ideas around business and accounting fairly quickly.
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#4"Further, many business students are aggressive and gregarious, many programmers are socially awkward..." I can generally agree with the article, but the old, old stereotypes aren't really helping, are they? I see very few "socially awkward" programmers in my work. They might not be game-show hosts, but they're not Rain Man either. As the author points out in the footnote, if you can master computing arcana, you can…
I made another note to the essay.
What I mean to say is that successful programmers will try business, but what successful business people try engineering? But "trying to" is not a sufficient condition for "succeeding at."
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#5Because implementing an Idea is most of the time harder than having an Idea And becausing aquiring the knowledge to implement the Idea is also a lot harder than the effort needed to aquire an Idea Finally, I think because people who do and know how to do are so preocupied with the tuff-ness of implementing the Idea they sometimes loose enthusiam and in many way this sometimes ties them down or set them back a little,…
"Because implementing an Idea is most of the time harder than having an Idea"
I think the difficulty is not in the hacking skills, though. Therefore it seems to me the arrogance of hackers is unwarranted. While I have a science degree, I taught myself programming with a couple of books - it really is not a secret superpower that should make the rest of mankind bow down before me. It is a skill like any other.
Personally, I would be delighted to meet a business person who is dedicated to making an idea a reality.
There might be an issue of trust: typically, business people are perceived as the people who screw things up and make life bad for the programmers. Therefore, just bumping into a random business person, a hackers enthusiasm might be limited.
Another thing that sucks about hacker arrogance: most hackers really only want to work on their own ideas. That makes finding co-founders very difficult. Last year I really tried to meet eligible candidates (ie on barcamps), but even though I met a few capable people whom I also liked, finding common ideas and visions was too unlikely in the end. Of course, I myself am no exception, I would also prefer to work on my own ideas. I try to be open for other ideas, but still.
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#6Because implementing an Idea is most of the time harder than having an Idea And becausing aquiring the knowledge to implement the Idea is also a lot harder than the effort needed to aquire an Idea Finally, I think because people who do and know how to do are so preocupied with the tuff-ness of implementing the Idea they sometimes loose enthusiam and in many way this sometimes ties them down or set them back a little,…
"Because implementing an Idea is most of the time harder than having an Idea" I think the difficulty is not in the hacking skills, though. Therefore it seems to me the arrogance of hackers is unwarranted. While I have a science degree, I taught myself programming with a couple of books - it really is not a secret superpower that should make the rest of mankind bow down before me. It is a skill like any other. Persona…
But _why_ are hackers arrogant, and how does one differentiate between "bad" arrogance (what you described) and "good" arrogance (like Steve Jobs)?
I don't have the answer to suggest for this question now, but I hope that it starts an interesting discussion. I'll try to reply tomorrow morning.
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#7I actually think of requests of this type as an investment request, the product will take X days to build, I charge Y per day if I agree to build the product I have just invested X*Y dollars into the company.
Then I calculate what the other side brings into the deal (time/skills/money) and calculate the percentage for which I'd consider working on the project.
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#8Let it die this already. I think this has been beaten to death. A businness type, with just an idea, without any hackers, or capital to implement it, is just day dreaming.
And it is annoying when they think they deserve more than half of the company just b/c of that idea.... If they were providing more than that, capital, connections, userbase, community or something significant, then yes that idea is more than just an idea, but more of a practical plan.
But in all this tech parties I have been, and I keep meeting this "wantreprenours", that are just a "coder" away from getting their startup off the ground, if they only could find a coder.... good luck.
They come across with a douchebag types, with a sense of superiority as they think they know businness better than you, but yet are pretty oblivious on what it takes to get something off the ground. They learn few keywords such as Ajax, Ruby on Rails, PHP, and quite often they hugely undersestimate the effort it takes (development wise) to build something they want, which is very annoying to programmers.
Just go to any 2.0 parties, and you will meet these annoying wankers all the time, with exceptions of course, as not everybody is annoying, or oblivious, but a lot are.
Ps. In college, a lot of the businnes majors were in social frats, which tend to be disliked from academic/smart types. Plus businnes school is not a big deal. A CS major can easily go to MBA and be good at it, will the reverse is very rare. At my CS programm, during the second semester, we had a class that was kinda hard, which weeded out the people that were not capable to handle it, or were there for the wrong reasons (money, as it was the .com boom then). Ah, and a lot of these failed CS majors ended up either in businnes, or "information techonology", which was half businnes. So, there you go, more reasons not to like business types.
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#9Because typically the programmer will end up spending 1000x longer to complete his part. This is no exaggeration.
Re: Why Student Programmers Rant about Business Students with “Ideas”
#10Because implementing an Idea is most of the time harder than having an Idea And becausing aquiring the knowledge to implement the Idea is also a lot harder than the effort needed to aquire an Idea Finally, I think because people who do and know how to do are so preocupied with the tuff-ness of implementing the Idea they sometimes loose enthusiam and in many way this sometimes ties them down or set them back a little,…
"Because implementing an Idea is most of the time harder than having an Idea" I think the difficulty is not in the hacking skills, though. Therefore it seems to me the arrogance of hackers is unwarranted. While I have a science degree, I taught myself programming with a couple of books - it really is not a secret superpower that should make the rest of mankind bow down before me. It is a skill like any other. Persona…
Nonsense, everyone wants to work on their own ideas.