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House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

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21–30 of 58 posts

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#21
post #18

... because we have to defend the ehh hmmm satellites against cough ehm ehhh other satellites. Nothing like a fourth branch of the armed forces to increase the biggest military budget in the world [1] by another few dozen percent. [1] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1. US 611 bn 2. China 215 bn 3. Russia 69 bn

Aren't those all about the same as a percentage of gdp?

[deleted]

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#22
post #18

... because we have to defend the ehh hmmm satellites against cough ehm ehhh other satellites. Nothing like a fourth branch of the armed forces to increase the biggest military budget in the world [1] by another few dozen percent. [1] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1. US 611 bn 2. China 215 bn 3. Russia 69 bn

Aren't those all about the same as a percentage of gdp?

China is ~2%.

US is ~4% once off budget spending is accounted for. The actual is ~3%.

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#23
post #18

... because we have to defend the ehh hmmm satellites against cough ehm ehhh other satellites. Nothing like a fourth branch of the armed forces to increase the biggest military budget in the world [1] by another few dozen percent. [1] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1. US 611 bn 2. China 215 bn 3. Russia 69 bn

Aren't those all about the same as a percentage of gdp?

From the same table:

  1. US     611 bn (3.3% of GDP)
  2. China  215 bn (1.9% of GDP)
  3. Russia  69 bn (5.3% of GDP)

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#24

... because we have to defend the ehh hmmm satellites against cough ehm ehhh other satellites. Nothing like a fourth branch of the armed forces to increase the biggest military budget in the world [1] by another few dozen percent. [1] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1. US 611 bn 2. China 215 bn 3. Russia 69 bn

You mean instead of giving the much need financing to the talent that already exists in the thousands of branches that already exist in the US government they are instead pushing for creating a whole new group of administrators who will oversee the 10-20% of the staff who are the actual nerds who output the real value the agency was originally designed to do?

If recent history has taught us anything is that the real issue is those nerds need extensive micro-management and predefined processes designed by committee (/s), and given how most of those nerds are hired through 3rd party contractors these days for 5x the cost, you also need thousands of people to oversee and manage the extensive contracts used to hire them and push out the ever expanding list of project requirements and legal rules to these companies.

It's a perfect recipe for success. Why else would it be repeatedly used?

The fact administrators see the solution to every problem is hiring MORE administrators (who often just happen to be companies staffed by their old friends from school) it's really not that surprising that western governments around the world (not just the US) are consistently failing to accomplish the most basic government projects which were previously a dime-a-dozen at comparable rates of private markets before the explosion of the size of government in the 1950/60s and it became standard practice for everything to cost 10x as much and/or result in endless delays.

It's what happens when administrators take over. Aka the Iron Rule of Bureaucracy. When any failures happen instead of firing these people or holding them responsible, we turn to them to solve the problem, which always turns out to mean either hiring more people just like them or throwing billions more into the same agencies/contracts:

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

According to the current mainstream narrative only greedy fiscal conservatives who hate governments are the ones who take issue with this approach. So my critiques are largely just going to be pigeonholed into a controversial political ideology rather than being a blatantly obvious issue with modern government agencies across the western world.

The existing systems need to be broken down, critiqued, and lessons should be actually learned. Just throwing more people/money/power at the problem doesn't help solve it. Unless your goal is merely resource extraction and maintaining the appearance of doing something rather than actually solving problems.

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#25
post #16
post #8

SciFi usually base military in space based on the navy, I wonder if this was considered or even makes a difference?

I'm guessing that the sci-fi practice was due to the sociological similarities between spacecraft crews and ship crews on isolated, long-term voyages. At present, the US Air Force has been responsible for most high-tech concerns including cyber warfare and space warfare, so it probably was the least organizationally disruptive to bring the new branch in alongside the AF.

plug for project rho! They have some discussion of sci-fi military organization (and nine thousand other things, seriously, it's the TV Tropes of sci-fi)

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/military.php#id...

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#26
post #13

Sounds like somebody at USAF Space Command wants a promotion. This seems decades late. The USAF has no manned space capability. The U.S. Government once owned the Space Shuttles. They had astronauts. The USAF once had a Space School. That's all gone. Now, they just buy commercial rocket launches. If anything, the reorganization the USAF needs is to lose the close air support mission, and the A-10 Warthogs, to the Arm…

The organization of the US military really should be mission-based rather than some weird afoot-afloat-aloft separation.

There's no particular reason why air superiority fighters, long range bombers, aerial refueling tankers, and airdrop cargo haulers should all be under the same command just because they all fly. Clearly, two of those are for logistics, and two are for force projection.

I suspect that the existence of the military academies don't help in that respect.

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#27

... because we have to defend the ehh hmmm satellites against cough ehm ehhh other satellites. Nothing like a fourth branch of the armed forces to increase the biggest military budget in the world [1] by another few dozen percent. [1] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1. US 611 bn 2. China 215 bn 3. Russia 69 bn

[deleted]

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#28
post #19
post #8

SciFi usually base military in space based on the navy, I wonder if this was considered or even makes a difference?

Stargate being a notable exception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Program#Stargate_Comm... Which reflects how in real life the Air Force does have more to do with space than the Navy.

I always thought that SG being an air force show was unrealistic once the USN RN etc found out "wait there are real star ships" they would want to take over.

Let alone the CIA / SAD / SIS wanting to run intelligence opps of world

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#29
post #13

Sounds like somebody at USAF Space Command wants a promotion. This seems decades late. The USAF has no manned space capability. The U.S. Government once owned the Space Shuttles. They had astronauts. The USAF once had a Space School. That's all gone. Now, they just buy commercial rocket launches. If anything, the reorganization the USAF needs is to lose the close air support mission, and the A-10 Warthogs, to the Arm…

I imagine that the not-too-distant future of close air support is drones with guns and rockets. These could potentially be operated by soldiers on or near the front lines. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine a soldier with a tablet tapping on things for the drone to shoot at.

Not needing a pilot could make them smaller, cheaper, and able to enter (and remain in) dangerous areas in a way a helicopter or plane never could.

This seems like something the Army could operate themselves.

Re: House panel votes to split Air Force, create new U.S. Space Corps

#30
post #24

... because we have to defend the ehh hmmm satellites against cough ehm ehhh other satellites. Nothing like a fourth branch of the armed forces to increase the biggest military budget in the world [1] by another few dozen percent. [1] From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... 1. US 611 bn 2. China 215 bn 3. Russia 69 bn

You mean instead of giving the much need financing to the talent that already exists in the thousands of branches that already exist in the US government they are instead pushing for creating a whole new group of administrators who will oversee the 10-20% of the staff who are the actual nerds who output the real value the agency was originally designed to do? If recent history has taught us anything is that the real…

From what I have seen anecdotally, quite a lot of military jobs exist for the sole purpose of taking veterans from active duty retirement age, when they become no longer directly useful to the chain of command, out to civilian retirement age, between 60 and 70 years old. Sometimes they are employed gainfully; other times it amounts to a sinecure.

So bona-fide government jobs are created for those folks, who oversee, advise, or consult for all those private-sector companies that work mostly on government defense contracts. Those are the very people who end up telling a bunch of undisciplined geeks how they should be doing their jobs. All those TPS report cover sheets go to them. They have to work really hard to ensure that nobody is ripping off the government, in exactly the same way you have to watch your waiter at the diner like a hawk, to make sure they don't give you fewer french fries than you are entitled to, or put ketchup on your hot dog, or something. They can't do the job, but they pretend like they can make someone else do the job better, mostly by staring at them without blinking, and making the "I'm watching you, buddy" hand gesture.

The reality is that the geeks should be the ones hired directly into the government jobs, but they can't get them, due to hiring preference points. And also, because the pay scales are locked, and cannot compete in the open market.

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