Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#1

Post by vrikhter » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 2:59 AM UTC

Our startup is looking to use banner advertising to help increase sales. So I have a few questions for the HN community:

1) We have ideas of what the theme of some of these banner ads will be, but we don't know the best wording that should be used. Should we get a copywriter? If so, where? How much should we expect to pay?

2) We can do the ads ourselves from a creative (art) perspective, but it may make more sense to have someone else do them for us if they are better. Where can we find a good designer for banner ads? Again, how much should we expect to pay?

3) Is there a resource online where we can gauge the potential success of these ads? We're interested in knowing what we can expect for CTR rates and/or CPC.

4) Any additional information that we should consider?

Thank you for responses ahead of time!

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#2

Post by RDDavies » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 3:04 AM UTC

1. Yes, get a copywriter. KNOW someone through contacts. I've got one, email is in my info, if you need one.

2. Same as #1.

3. There are SO many variables in what you're looking for. I recommend using some sort of tracking system (I use Omniture) to track as much information as you possibly can, so you can better target future advertisements.

4. Depending upon what you're doing, you may not do very well with banner ads. I found that in my last business, being active in the "community" behind what it was based (posting on forums, showing up at events, etc.) was INCREDIBLY effective, and the banner ads didn't get me more than around 2-3K in sales (I was only making an average of 20% margin or so), which barely paid for having them in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#3

Post by eam » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 3:24 AM UTC

You might want to read Gabriel Weinberg's blog post on what worked for him. URL: http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2010/03/my-duck-duck-go-...

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#4

Post by vrikhter » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 3:52 AM UTC

eam wrote: post #3

You might want to read Gabriel Weinberg's blog post on what worked for him. URL: http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2010/03/my-duck-duck-go-...

Thanks, just read through that.

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#5

Post by il » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 3:53 AM UTC

Based on several years experience optimizing Internet ad campaigns, here are a few banner advertising tips:

1. Test and track EVERYTHING. Every variation, headline,layout, domain ad is on, etc should have a unique ID, so you can see not just what gets the highest CTR but also which ad converts/backs out the best.

2. Good design does not necessarily mean good ads. I've had the highest CTR and conversions come from the simplest, ugliest ads. See Plenty of Fish banner ads for an example of ugly,yet effective advertising.

3. Regardless of the direction you take your design, have a clear, easy to see call to action ("click here!" button for example). Design the ad to draw the eye towards that button.

4. There are two main strategies in banner ad design, blend or clash. Either blend in with the design of the site your banner appears on with similar colors and visual elements, or go the other direction and make an ad that clashes with it and stands out.

More specific banner media buying advice:

Taget smaller sites your customers are likely to visit. Ask to buy remnant inventory, and pay CPM. Don't pay more than $2-$3 CPM except in specialized cases. Don't go through ad ad network unless you have a big testing budget, instead go direct to webmasters. Use your own adserver and pay based on your adserver's numbers, not theirs. 1% CTR is fantastic for banner ads, but your EPC/conversion numbers will be the way to determine if an ad is succesful.

My email is in my profile, you(or anyone else here) can email me if you have other questions.

PS I don't think you need to hire a copywriter, you're obviously good enough at writing headlines based on how many upvotes this submission has!

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#6

Post by vrikhter » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 3:54 AM UTC

RDDavies wrote: post #2

1. Yes, get a copywriter. KNOW someone through contacts. I've got one, email is in my info, if you need one. 2. Same as #1. 3. There are SO many variables in what you're looking for. I recommend using some sort of tracking system (I use Omniture) to track as much information as you possibly can, so you can better target future advertisements. 4. Depending upon what you're doing, you may not do very well with banner a…

1&2) Would definitely love the contact info! Unfortunately your email is not in your info. Could you leave it on here?

3) Wouldn't tracking it yourself be the best method? 4) What was your last business? Ours is a SaaS product targeted to small businesses. Would be very costly to attend events.

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#7

Post by vrikhter » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 4:44 AM UTC

il wrote: post #5

Based on several years experience optimizing Internet ad campaigns, here are a few banner advertising tips: 1. Test and track EVERYTHING. Every variation, headline,layout, domain ad is on, etc should have a unique ID, so you can see not just what gets the highest CTR but also which ad converts/backs out the best. 2. Good design does not necessarily mean good ads. I've had the highest CTR and conversions come from the…

Its funny you say that, because originally I posted under a completely different title with the same content and got no feedback. Guess that was my own form of ad testing.

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#8

Post by jellisnyc » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 4:47 AM UTC

We just ran a few campaigns. Here's what we found.

The Deck - http://decknetwork.net/ We received roughly 4300 uniques across 2 weeks. We got about 9x the clicks from daringfireball than any of the other sites in the network (37signals, A List Apart, Kottke, FFFFound, etc.) If you email them they are open to negotiating.

Fusion Ads - http://fusionads.net/ Very similar model as The Deck. We ran one of the $400 one-week "bursts" that they offer. Received about 1400 uniques.

Before we ran either of these campaigns we experimented on Facebook to see what sort of graphic/copy produced the greated CTR. We found that a very simple graphic, and simple copy always did the best.

After we ran the campaigns we also realized that Facebook advertising is a great deal. You can run really targeted ads on FB for cheap and get great results. I would definitely experiment here before spending big money on one of the larger networks.

Regarding art/copy, I would see what you can come up with on your own. Unless you're running a massive campaign, not sure a designer/copywriter is worth the expense.

Finally, it should be mentioned that a clever blog entry or two can generate far more traffic than a banner ad campaign.

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#9

Post by nyc_jenna » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 5:21 AM UTC

We've only tried Facebook Ads so far and it hasn't shown good results. Maybe Adsense next?!

Re: Ask HN: What kind of advertising have you tried that worked?

#10

Post by ahoyhere » Mon, Jun 28, 2010, 5:23 AM UTC

Give away free educational/teaching/useful content that targets your customer - e.g. for our time tracking software, we have a fun paper printable time tracker for the "hipster PDA" and have several articles planned on freelance foibles / common time mistakes.

I'm pseudo-famous on the back of my Rails tutorials and cheat sheets.

This is way better than any kind of advertising you can simply plunk down money and buy, for obvious reasons -- it gets people to really like you, to spend the most time looking at what you make, etc.