Live data from Hacker News

Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

nytimes.com

231–240 of 323 posts

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#231
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and while there was never universal suffrage, most other civil liberties and the rule of law were upheld, by and large, under British administration. And that is giving way, slice by slice, to Chinese "guanxi" (i.e., "connections", "who do you know") and authoritarian politics. :-/

This is funny given the fact that in HK what school you go to largely depends on how much money your parents have (buy bonds issued by schools) and what is their occupation. This is strictly prohibited in mainland China - a private school recently asked education level of parents on one of its admin forms, that became national news and that school got punished in days. Selling school bonds to effectively bar average…

Not quite sure what your point is.

The school system is suboptimal indeed, and good private schools are very expensive and require some machinations to get in. Nevertheless, HK fairs very well in the international PISA studies (ahead of China, incidentally) [1].

Public hospitals in HK are good, modern, efficient, and inexpensive. Private hospitals provide an alternative if you want more personalised or faster service.

However, of this pertains to civil liberties and the rule of law (which my post was about).

The notion that access to education and health care is better in China (or more justly distributed, without special favours for the well-connected) is very questionable, as the other post highlighted.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_St...

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only difference is, with the exception of Taipei, there is no political history to point to and scapegoat. Sure there is. Politicians allowed foreigners to buy residency/citizenship in Canada to a greater degree than possible elsewhere. There are plenty of political levers to pull that can adjust housing costs. Government has a major role in determining property prices. They set the tax rates and issue permits.…

unityByFreedom 3 hours ago > Why don't you try responding to my argument rather than calling me names? unityByFreedom 7 hours ago > Sounds like a narrative that Beijing would very much support, Mr. New Account. Get people to hate their local govt and appeal to a higher authority for support. Brilliant. Because, as you've demonstrated, it's just so much easier (fun too!) to ignore an argument altogether and resort to…

This is not a place for flame wars.

Regardless of what you feel I've done, you need to stop.

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#233
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how are Hong Kong's tycoons any different from the mainland's princelings? The CCP is dealing with what it knows in Hong Kong, and the dysfunctions of both are not that different at all.

They aren't, but they make it difficult to call Hong Kong democratic, with a straight face. Half of their legislature is directly elected by corporations, for Pete's sakes.

Sure, well, it isn't that different in the mainland, where half the congress are SOE execs as well as successful business men. Anyways, can we just call it democracy with Chinese characteristics?

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#234
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this in the last thread about Hong Kong, but they're not as dumb as you think. Taiwan (both the Blue and Green coalitions) has always distrusted "one country, two systems", even way back in the 90s before Hong Kong's autonomy started getting salami-sliced away. China knows that, and knows they're not really losing anything by abandoning that approach. That's not their plan anyway. The parallel tracks for…

Why do they just -need- to have Taiwan back that they would kill for it? Just let it be.

If China doesn't have Taiwan, then some other country (e.g. the US or Japan) can put a naval base there and deny access to a large area. That would be a strategic disaster.

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#235

Some questions I'm thinking of in regards to this situation: -Who in the world does not agree that self-determination is good? -Britain seems to be standing up for Hong only lightly. Will they ever carry a bigger stick?[1] -What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship? -Would the former colonies in Africa and Asia be in better hands if they were st…

The problem is that Hong Kong was a colony for 100+ years so the effects of colonial mentality still remain.

Like black American slaves fighting for the Confederacy, we see that as wrong.

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#236
post #205

I'd like to offer my views on the decline of HK - 1. HK was a middleman, it used to connect the mainland China to the world. That worked for HK very well after 1949, but clearly the people living in the mainland do not want to see HK to keep having its cut for the flow of capitals/goods for a very reasonable reason - there are more and more professionals/businesses in mainland China that are eager/qualified/happy to…

Funny bringing up DJI as an example of a Shenzhen company. They were actually conceived in a Hong Kong university but moved over the border due to cheaper rents and closer proximity to factories.

DJI AFAIK moved out of Hong Kong due to the lack of funding. Hong Kong never developed any serious engineering culture & talent base and it is very difficult to start a high tech venture in Hong Kong, from a funding point of view. From a talent point of view, Shenzhen's engineering easily outnumbers and out-qualitys Hong Kong by an order of magnitude.

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unityByFreedom 3 hours ago > Why don't you try responding to my argument rather than calling me names? unityByFreedom 7 hours ago > Sounds like a narrative that Beijing would very much support, Mr. New Account. Get people to hate their local govt and appeal to a higher authority for support. Brilliant. Because, as you've demonstrated, it's just so much easier (fun too!) to ignore an argument altogether and resort to…

This is not a place for flame wars. Regardless of what you feel I've done, you need to stop.

Absolutely adorable. Thank you for that.

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#238
> Xiaomi, Didi, Mobike and OFO are the 4 unicorns of China's internet industry,

Lol. You're just going to ignore Tencent, founder of QQ, and countless other older, proven-to-be successful tech companies that aren't from anywhere near Beijing?

Suffice it to say, not everyone agrees with your assessment of Beijing as being the leader in innovation [1]

Being nearer the beauracracy never helps your flexibility. It helps your funding for development of things that are of interest to the state.

National government, sorry.

[1] http://www.allchinareview.com/chinas-emerging-silicon-valley...

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#239
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Today, HK's GDP is barely 3% of China's, and the ports of Shanghai and Shenzhen together have 3x the throughput of HK. (Just have a look at these pictures: I am really waiting for a NY Times article that has some angle about what China can teach us, not what they should learn from us. For the last 30 years we have been getting continuous dispatches that Communism with Chinese characteristics will fail into economic…

They can teach us how to use political dissidents as organ donors, suppress protests by disappearing opponents, imprison those who point out corruption, and no doubt many other things alien to our way of life.

Sounds great.

They can also teach us to be experts in censorship, so instead of just ignoring their worse aspects we can actively suppress knowledge of them.

That's what people want right? More effectively pretending china isn't a totalitarian regime?

Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble

#240
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes both ways, though - the tacit deal is basically that the HK tycoons do not challenge the Chinese Communist Party's monopoly on power, and the CCP doesn't challenge the HK tycoons' economic monopolies. But, all in all, I agree. As I've written in another thread: The grievances of HK's population are real: a political and business establishment dominated by property tycoons (and increasingly mainland Chinese po…

>Today, HK's GDP is barely 3% of China's, and the ports of Shanghai and Shenzhen together have 3x the throughput of HK. (Just have a look at these pictures: I am really waiting for a NY Times article that has some angle about what China can teach us, not what they should learn from us. For the last 30 years we have been getting continuous dispatches that Communism with Chinese characteristics will fail into economic…

Good point. The enormous strides China has made in recent decades, the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of people lifted out of poverty - extremely impressive, and unambiguously good.

Other things, not so much.

Post reply on HN