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The Gang of Four book is wrong about delegation (2012)

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Re: The Gang of Four book is wrong about delegation (2012)

#21

> If the message is delegated further, all questions about the values of variables or requests to reply to messages are all inferred to the object that delegated the message in the first place. I'm not sure how the author jumps from that quote to: > When that object delegates to another, then any reference to "self" always refers to the original message recipient. Always. The high-order bit is that the delegating obj…

I had to take a couple of passes at that to figure out what the various referents were. This is just a summary of Lieberman's position, so I guess we will have to go to his paper to see the reasoning behind this position.

As far as I follow it, the argument is that delegation means, in prototype-based OO (apparently the only context in which either author recognizes its use), that if an object has no method for handling a message that it has received, then it transitively searches through its prototypes for one that can handle it, and if found, the receiving object delegates the message to that prototype's method for handling. When that method handles it, however, it should do so in a way that is aware of the context of the object originally receiving the message, so that, for example, if both the receiving and handling object have a name, the handler should use the receiver's name if it needs a name in handling the message.

If we assume that the methods reference the context they are working with through a variable called 'self', then passing the handling method a 'self' bound to the original message receiver (not necessarily the most recent delegator) will achieve this: any method calls or references the handler needs to make will go through the same delegation process, starting from the original receiver, and in so doing possibly, but not necessarily, ending up at a method from the same object as was picked to handle the original message.

There may be the additional implication that this greatly facilitates composition, which is (it is claimed) preferable to inheritance, but I would think name collisions are a problem.

Re: The Gang of Four book is wrong about delegation (2012)

#23
post #14
post #8

The Gang of Four book is terrible. The explanation are very unclear (often because of excessive abstraction, even in the description and discussion). It's been a long time so my memory is hazy on its particular sins, but I've vowed never to touch it again. I never understood what anyone saw in that book (except that it was one of the first book on the topic of design patterns).

I always thought I was too dumb to understand the Gang of Four book. I thought everyone else must be so much smarter than me, because everyone praised this book. I really had trouble getting a clear picture in my head of the ideas, concepts and how it all fits together, due to the, as you say, excessive abstraction. I guess it was mostly due to my inexperience in software design in general. I haven't tried to read it…

I had the same thing. Fortunately there are other books that explain design patterns in a clearer way, but I still didn't quite see the point at the time. Clearly design patterns are important, and I should master them, right?

But then I switched from Java to Ruby, and half of the design patterns were completely irrelevant. And I had other problems for which I didn't have appropriate design patterns.

I think the Gang of Four book's target audience is far narrower than it's often been interpreted. It's meant for intermediate C++ programmers. People who have already run into a number of these problems that C++ doesn't really handle well, and now here's a book that helps you around those limitations.

I guess it also works well for older Java versions, but it's not universal. Many patterns are completely irrelevant for some languages, because those languages have easier ways to do that. Many languages have other shortcomings that are not handled in that book.

Maybe there's another target audience for that book: language designers. Design your language so nobody needs these patterns. Have built-in constructs that handle this stuff in an easy way for the programmer.

Re: The Gang of Four book is wrong about delegation (2012)

#24

Whole OOP is "wrong". It was "right" up to about early 90ies, given the average application size and hardware. The moment CPU's started scaling with cores and CPU started running hundreds of instructions per memory read, and applications started being bigger than few tens of KB - cornerstones of OOP (dynamic polymorphism, code attached to data, per-object access control) started actively working against developers.

It is not "wrong", but it is being "overused". I had been fixing people their broken OOP code for about 10 years (diamond problem, spaghetti code, too much coupling etc.). People seem to abuse it in every way they can. I personally do not like how code is often not separate from the data as well.

That is why i like C. I can have my data structure and just add functions that can operate on those data structures outside of the data structure itself without worrying about coupling code to the data. Extra functions that can operate on the data may as well be inside a dynamically loaded plugin. Not feeling forced to put everything that can operate on a single instance of the data inside the same class. Not feeling forced to create a separate class to add methods that can operate on multiple instances of the data and hardcoding multicore support inside of it.

The new C++ (and Nim) have the notion of concepts which can mostly replace the many ways OOP was being abused. It is similar to type classes in Haskell. I advice you to read Alexander Stepanov's books.

You can have a data structure in a class, add certain concepts that the data structure supports and then create separate functions which can operate on these concepts outside of the class / object.

Re: The Gang of Four book is wrong about delegation (2012)

#26
post #24

Whole OOP is "wrong". It was "right" up to about early 90ies, given the average application size and hardware. The moment CPU's started scaling with cores and CPU started running hundreds of instructions per memory read, and applications started being bigger than few tens of KB - cornerstones of OOP (dynamic polymorphism, code attached to data, per-object access control) started actively working against developers.

It is not "wrong", but it is being "overused". I had been fixing people their broken OOP code for about 10 years (diamond problem, spaghetti code, too much coupling etc.). People seem to abuse it in every way they can. I personally do not like how code is often not separate from the data as well. That is why i like C. I can have my data structure and just add functions that can operate on those data structures outsid…

I'm not sure I'd agree with initial statement (and by this I literally mean - "I am not sure", its not a figure of speech).

I agree with everything else you said, but the way I see it - when a paradigm cornerstone itself starts getting in the way of code organization, then that's a clear sign that paradigm itself is 'wrong', or more precisely, wrong when applied to this set of problems.

Oooooooh, look at that, I understand now what you meant :-D

Regarding your second paragraph - this is, looking from efficiency standpoint, the best approach. Additional gain is in access control: it becomes flat (ie. module-controlled), rather than having a class hierarchy in between, and then using messy constructs such as interfaces/mixins to achieve both code and type inheritance. Raise hands if you ever ended up in situation where you have to convert from one type to another, while the actual data they carry are precisely the same. Raise hands if you ever had to pollute an interface or a parent class with extra data, because a subclass somewhere contains exact data needed at the other part of the chain. This is friction - and it works against the developer/team. The larger the software, the worse it gets; it doesn't have to be that way.

Anyways, regarding last two points - yes, I'm very familiar with parametric polymorphism (it is a sole reason I use C++ for work, over C), and I have than half a decade of Haskell experience behind me. Trying to shift into Rust lately - its easier to find jobs.

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