They kicked out the British, why do they want them back? lol
Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
31–40 of 323 posts
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship? ????? Hong Kong is wealthy, developed, and cosmopolitan and the West Bank/Gaza are not?? Israel and Palestine share the same landmass and China and Britain do not?? Israel is the most powerful nation in the Middle East and Britian is not the most powerful nation in East Asia--in fact it's a nation in W…
I was trying to compare the political situation, not quality of life, which as you mention is vastly different. My comparison is more that: -China controls Hong Kong with only limited local say in the government. Israel also controls the West Bank, with limited Palestinian Authority control of certain matters. -Hong Kong can't have a military or conduct foreign affairs and isn't internationally recognized (same as We…
You've made me think about this !
I recently had to pass between Canada and the US and I, too, was forced to enter a checkpoint where I was held by someone carrying a gun, who asked invasive questions about why I wanted to cross into a different territory and I had to satisfy the guard that I was not going to present any threat and that my purpose for travel was legitimate.
Like a fool, I previously believed this was a normal thing done by countries and that these were normal border policing activities at so-called 'border crossings'.
But after reading your post, I now realize I was forced to be subjugated by an evil oppressor.
At least, that is if I accept that an otherwise normal action at territorial separation points can be re-phrased in pejorative terms through re-naming of border crossings as the more sinister sounding 'checkpoints'.
edit:typo.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#33Britain is the genesis of freedom. Go read the Magna Carta. Other Western European countries also spread fantastic ideals.
Non-Western countries have ZERO freedoms, and people are crawling over themselves to move to the West. DESPITE, these "colonial powers" leaving 40-50 years ago, those populations want to move to Europe, the US, Australia/NZ, and Canada.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#34of course it's in trouble. There's 1.3 billion brain-washed citizens, many of whom are working here in the bay, who believe: 1) taiwan is a part of china 2) tiannamen square didn't happen 3) the CCP is ok how can they study here for grad school, want to stay for h1-b and get the green card, have extreme nationalism for their officially communist government, yet happily participate in the fruits of capitalism and west…
chinese gov is not communist government at all as you think.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#35I love both these comments. China doesn't have private ownership. it's still communist, right?
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#361) Many people. Look at Brexit. You can argue until your face turns blue that it's bad for Britain, it most likely is, but at least they don't have unelected politicians setting rules. It's pro-self-determination no matter how you look at it. 2) Why should Britain stand up for Hong Kong? They're imperialists while they hold on to it, and then cowards when they give it back to China and say? 3) Almost invariable yes.…
> but at least they don't have unelected politicians setting rules I guess you are referring to the European Commission that is an executive branch of the EU institutions i.e. a government. Guess what - in most cases people have no control over who becomes a member of the government - in best case they can vote for a person who becomes a leader of the government (say president in US). In that regard the selection of…
And here we go already....
> in most cases people have no control over who becomes a member of the government in best case they can vote for a person who becomes a leader of the government
Uh, do you not support democracy? Because how else do you have a democracy except to vote for elected representatives, and you have DIRECT control of doing so through voting?
I'm not really anti-EU. I don't much care, whatever keeps that continent from boiling over in war is probably a good thing, but seriously don't come in here and say that something like the European Commissions is a more democratic institution than voting for your representatives and leaders are. That's intellectually dishonest.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#37I think it should be pointed out that Hong Kong never had democracy. The British ruled the country with the same iron fist the Chinese do, and indeed many of the laws currently being used against the Hong Kong citizenry originated with them. The difference really does come down to the fact that the British, although authoritarian, ran a relatively clean ship. Meanwhile Beijing's government has been corrupt, nepotisti…
Wouldn't China's rule be more chaotic evil?
China would be less traditional D&D alignments and more of a faction-based system where the party and the nation are at the top of the loyalty priority list.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#38Some questions I'm thinking of in regards to this situation: -Who in the world does not agree that self-determination is good? -Britain seems to be standing up for Hong only lightly. Will they ever carry a bigger stick?[1] -What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship? -Would the former colonies in Africa and Asia be in better hands if they were st…
> Who in the world does not agree that self-determination is good?
Generally the self-determination of a population is opposed if that population is viewed as the same ethnicity as you. Just look at the concept of the independence or real autonomy some day of Vojvodina or Transylvania. Besides blaming such talk on a Hungarian irredentist plot, Serbs and Romanians from further south are completely aghast that some of their fellow Serbs and Romanians might not want to share the same country with them.
There's a feeling that once an ethnic group has been gathered together into the same nation state, none of them have the right to leave it. Thus in China today, it's no surprise that the Han population in China (or at least its Han-controlled government) would be uncomfortable with the idea of the Han in Hong Kong (or Taiwan) going in a different direction.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#39of course it's in trouble. There's 1.3 billion brain-washed citizens, many of whom are working here in the bay, who believe: 1) taiwan is a part of china 2) tiannamen square didn't happen 3) the CCP is ok how can they study here for grad school, want to stay for h1-b and get the green card, have extreme nationalism for their officially communist government, yet happily participate in the fruits of capitalism and west…
Disclaimer, from mainland China, knows people live in US from Hong Kong.
> There's 1.3 billion brain-washed citizens Brain-wash is a strong word. Chines people are not like some another-dimensional like minions. They think and behave reasonably and just like any other one on this planet. Please refrain from using strong word without actual evidence.
> taiwan is a part of china
History shows that Taiwan was forcefully severed from the national Chinese government. Taiwan government also say they belong to the national Chinese government, and thought the mainline CCP is illegal.
> tiannamen square didn't happen
You probably meet some people who happen to believe that. I highly doubt anyone in China now believe that did not happen, let alone those who live in Bay area.
> the CCP is ok
CCP is fine. They managed China in good shape. What's the problems one would have if you have such a government.
> how can they study here for grad school, want to stay for h1-b and get the green card, have extreme nationalism for their officially communist government yet happily participate in the fruits of capitalism and western liberalism. It's quite shocking.
1. China does not have a socialism or communism economy. You can label it as such, but the truth is they practice a national capitalism. Such belief is not in odds with western values. People do value freedom and all such ubiquitous values, so they move to western countries. 2. "Extreme nationalism for their officially communist government" Just 3 bullet points, then this label got applied onto these people?! Bias aside, the 'extreme' part is rather exaggerating. Why nationalism is tied with the government? 3 bullet point can translate to pro-communist government? And an extension to tie 'extreme nationalism' to communist? I just cannot see the connection.
3. "happily participate in the fruits of capitalism and western liberalism." No, people do not have hidden agenda to do anything out of reach. They believe in the value of western nations. The premise of what you said is unfounded, and this contrast does not bear much meaning, IMHO.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#40You probably the typical american who think he understand china better than Chinese.
In comparison, I born in China and live in US for 6 years now.