Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
nytimes.com
Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
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Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#2of course it's in trouble. There's 1.3 billion brain-washed citizens, many of whom are working here in the bay, who believe:
1) taiwan is a part of china 2) tiannamen square didn't happen 3) the CCP is ok
how can they study here for grad school, want to stay for h1-b and get the green card, have extreme nationalism for their officially communist government, yet happily participate in the fruits of capitalism and western liberalism.
It's quite shocking.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#3Some questions I'm thinking of in regards to this situation:
-Who in the world does not agree that self-determination is good?
-Britain seems to be standing up for Hong only lightly. Will they ever carry a bigger stick?[1]
-What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship?
-Would the former colonies in Africa and Asia be in better hands if they were still part of their old master countries? Hong Kong is obviously not in a terrible spot, but certainly many former colonies in Africa are.
-I think it's clear that because China-Hong Kong have close economic ties, but China is much larger, that Hong Kong needs China much more than China needs Hong Kong[2,3]. Will this power dynamic further bias decisions in favor of Beijing?
[1]http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/1871316/...
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#4of course it's in trouble. There's 1.3 billion brain-washed citizens, many of whom are working here in the bay, who believe: 1) taiwan is a part of china 2) tiannamen square didn't happen 3) the CCP is ok how can they study here for grad school, want to stay for h1-b and get the green card, have extreme nationalism for their officially communist government, yet happily participate in the fruits of capitalism and west…
I can't seem to find any studies on Chines-American or Chinese-in-the-US views on the Chinese government, but my anecdotal experiences are different than yours. I find a more typical view of, "It's a difficult situation, and there's not much we can do about it" and not "The Communist party is the best and democracy is terrible".
And on the spectrum of Complete Communism->Complete Capitalism (no country is completely on either end), I'm not so sure China is too far off from some completely western countries. According to the Index of Economic Freedom, China is only slightly lower than Croatia (EU Member), South Africa and Italy[1].
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#51) Many people. Look at Brexit. You can argue until your face turns blue that it's bad for Britain, it most likely is, but at least they don't have unelected politicians setting rules. It's pro-self-determination no matter how you look at it.
2) Why should Britain stand up for Hong Kong? They're imperialists while they hold on to it, and then cowards when they give it back to China and say?
3) Almost invariable yes. But then that makes you an imperialist slave driver. Did bad things happen? Absolutely. Terrible, horrible things. But look at how things are now.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#6Some questions I'm thinking of in regards to this situation: -Who in the world does not agree that self-determination is good? -Britain seems to be standing up for Hong only lightly. Will they ever carry a bigger stick?[1] -What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship? -Would the former colonies in Africa and Asia be in better hands if they were st…
>What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship?
????? Hong Kong is wealthy, developed, and cosmopolitan and the West Bank/Gaza are not??
Israel and Palestine share the same landmass and China and Britain do not??
Israel is the most powerful nation in the Middle East and Britian is not the most powerful nation in East Asia--in fact it's a nation in Western Europe???
Even when Britain was highly relevant in Asia they were only ever a colonial power while Israel as a nation is inextricably tied to the land that it shares with Palestine?????
I'm really struggling to see where you're going with this one...
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#71) Many people. Look at Brexit. You can argue until your face turns blue that it's bad for Britain, it most likely is, but at least they don't have unelected politicians setting rules. It's pro-self-determination no matter how you look at it. 2) Why should Britain stand up for Hong Kong? They're imperialists while they hold on to it, and then cowards when they give it back to China and say? 3) Almost invariable yes.…
> at least they don't have unelected politicians setting rules
I have some bad news for you about the House of Lords.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#8of course it's in trouble. There's 1.3 billion brain-washed citizens, many of whom are working here in the bay, who believe: 1) taiwan is a part of china 2) tiannamen square didn't happen 3) the CCP is ok how can they study here for grad school, want to stay for h1-b and get the green card, have extreme nationalism for their officially communist government, yet happily participate in the fruits of capitalism and west…
I can't seem to find any studies on Chines-American or Chinese-in-the-US views on the Chinese government, but my anecdotal experiences are different than yours. I find a more typical view of, "It's a difficult situation, and there's not much we can do about it" and not "The Communist party is the best and democracy is terrible". And on the spectrum of Complete Communism->Complete Capitalism (no country is completely…
Dude, they love their government with extreme pride. You're probably talking to them as an obvious American, and they are backing down and downplaying it to hide it, because they know it's your home turf and they'd rather not get in a fight with a 'Murica-dude over it.
Try talking to them as another asian or foreigner. You will see their nationalism come out.
If you don't believe me, ask your non-American non-Chinese friends for their anecdotal experiences.
And yes, of course it's not all of them.
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#9Some questions I'm thinking of in regards to this situation: -Who in the world does not agree that self-determination is good? -Britain seems to be standing up for Hong only lightly. Will they ever carry a bigger stick?[1] -What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship? -Would the former colonies in Africa and Asia be in better hands if they were st…
>What is the difference between Hong Kong/China relationship and the often criticized West Bank/Israel relationship? ????? Hong Kong is wealthy, developed, and cosmopolitan and the West Bank/Gaza are not?? Israel and Palestine share the same landmass and China and Britain do not?? Israel is the most powerful nation in the Middle East and Britian is not the most powerful nation in East Asia--in fact it's a nation in W…
I was trying to compare the political situation, not quality of life, which as you mention is vastly different.
My comparison is more that:
-China controls Hong Kong with only limited local say in the government. Israel also controls the West Bank, with limited Palestinian Authority control of certain matters.
-Hong Kong can't have a military or conduct foreign affairs and isn't internationally recognized (same as West Bank)
-Palestinians in the West Bank are separated from Israel, and are required to enter checkpoints to cross over. Hong Kong residents also need to go through (less invasive) checkpoints to go into China.
At first I thought my comparison might be unfounded, but I thought it was interesting none the less. But I'm now struggling to see real political differences in the two situations (although obviously there are many differences in scale of policy differences, and also important historical differences). I'd love to be proven wrong though. Certainly Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank is a difference. Any other major differences?
Re: Once a Model City, Hong Kong Is in Trouble
#101) Many people. Look at Brexit. You can argue until your face turns blue that it's bad for Britain, it most likely is, but at least they don't have unelected politicians setting rules. It's pro-self-determination no matter how you look at it. 2) Why should Britain stand up for Hong Kong? They're imperialists while they hold on to it, and then cowards when they give it back to China and say? 3) Almost invariable yes.…
> at least they don't have unelected politicians setting rules I have some bad news for you about the House of Lords.
Yes. But that's a far cry from somebody in Brussels creating laws and policies.