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Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

nytimes.com

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Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#71

Post by floatboth »

jessespears wrote: post #59
Quarrelsome wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulate operating systems. Fund programs and research to work out how to create operating systems for our infrastructure that contain less zero days. Ensure we're the ones that find the zero days first. The reason we're vulnerable is because we're unwilling to pay the cost of finding the exploits but people in developing nations ARE because they work for "less". Right now our economies and systems reward those that…

This would take an extraordinary departure from our current politics. Government intruding on software would (rightly) cause cries from the most stalwart Free Software advocates and from proprietary software companies. Can you imagine the outcry if a new Linux fork had to seek government approval in order to post their distribution? Can you expect Google or Oracle to fail to lobby the government to make sure they don…

Not in order to post their distribution! Approval for usage in critical infrastructure.

Critical infrastructure, IMO, should:

- not use general purpose operating systems

- maybe not use general purpose computers (just build custom FPGA logic to control power grids and stuff)

- not use internet connected computers

- maybe not use computers at all when possible

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#73

Post by andrewjl »

thoth wrote: post #34
Quarrelsome wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you want to live in a world where both countries don't have any power? Sounds Utopian. Defence is only card in this game worth playing especially when it comes to infrastructure attacks.

Defense may be the only game worth playing, but how will that work? Unlike the real military where civilians simply don't own the hardware, in computer security they do. NSA isn't a hardware or software vendor, and the corporations that are don't have much of a profit motive to heavily invest in security. They aren't actually liable for problems unlike say a car manufacturer that releases a faulty product, which leav…

Regulation, especially for software powering critical systems. We'd have to have a good definition for what critical means, probably with different levels that escalate the security requirements.

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#74

Post by Sir_Substance »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #8
apeace wrote: post #4

This is merely a taste of what is to come. When President Obama stated in December[0] that we will deliver a "proportional response" to Russian hacking at the "time and place of our own choosing", it seemed that most of the country was proud, almost gleeful at the thought that we would be striking back. I for one was mortified. We should not be escalating cyberwar, even if we do have proof of who attacked us. People…

I don't want the NSA to become a defensive organization. I like that Iran's nuclear program is being delayed. That's not a defensive action. You don't seem to be proposing that the NSA become defensive, either. If Russia attacks us and we don't respond, that's not even defensive. That's dismantling.

Cyberweapons created by the USA were used to shut down the entire national hospital system of the UK, one of their biggest allies. Good job USA!

Iran is educated enough to make nuclear weapons, but you want their program shut down because you think they're not responsible enough to be trusted with nuclear weapons.

The US is educated enough to make cyber-weapons, but I want their program shut down because I think they're not responsible enough to be trusted with cyber-weapons.

Maybe the UK should go on the offensive, wipe a few NSA datacenters, for the long term safety of the British people?

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#75

Post by mrkgnao »

SCHiM wrote: post #43
rjsw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that different countries have put missiles in submarines ?

And Russia reportedly even has a deadmans-switch that can be triggered by seismic activity on Russian soil and rapid changes in air pressure. I'd presume that such a system is not connected to the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war)

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#76

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #70
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want the NSA to become a defensive organization. I like that Iran's nuclear program is being delayed. That's not a defensive action. You don't seem to be proposing that the NSA become defensive, either. If Russia attacks us and we don't respond, that's not even defensive. That's dismantling.

"Cyberweapons" should be treated like bioweapons: there should be a framework of international law to decommission them, because they are simply too prone to spreading on their own and too dangerous to civilians. The US does not have a defensive anthrax capability (I believe), because it's too much of a liability.

[deleted]

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#77

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #66
SCHiM wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Russia reportedly even has a deadmans-switch that can be triggered by seismic activity on Russian soil and rapid changes in air pressure. I'd presume that such a system is not connected to the internet.

Isn't this literally the denoument of Dr Strangelove ?

[deleted]

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#78

Post by lobster_johnson »

NumberCruncher wrote: post #25
jameskegel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh what a world we live in where cyberwarfare could result in death. I would have never thought, as a kid, that life (and death) would end up this "real".

The hacker Karl Koch [1] thought being responsible for the disaster at Chernobyl [2] back in 1986 causing 2M deaths in the last 30 years. I think we will never know whether he was right or not. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Koch_(hacker) [2] (German) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB-Hack

The cause of the Chernobyl disaster are extremely well researched and documented; the explosion was caused by a planned test that went terribly wrong. Nothing I have read indicates anything about a hack, and everything can be explained by the actions of the people physically present.

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#79

Post by digi_owl »

NumberCruncher wrote: post #62
peterwaller wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused what the connection is with Chernobyl. But 2M deaths in the last 30 years is not likely correct - this interesting WHO report on the matter suggests the final toll from the radiation would be more like "up to 4k": http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2005/pr38/en/ http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/chernobyl/chernobyl_di... > The main causes of death in the Chernobyl-affected region are the sa…

>> The main causes of death in the Chernobyl-affected region... The Chernobyl-affected region includes big parts of Western Europe. Back then in 1986 my godfather was cleaning trains coming from Russia through Ukraine (but not directly from the Chernobyl region) and was contaminated. He lost his teeth and hair. We lived ca. 800 km away from Chernobyl. On the other hand thanks the river Dnepr the Chernobyl region is c…

While not affecting humans directly, an indication of the far reach of Chernobyl is that sheep farmers in parts of Norway still have to medicate the herd.

Re: Hacks Raise Fear Over N.S.A.’s Hold on Cyberweapons

#80

Post by MajesticHobo »

pjc50 wrote: post #70
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want the NSA to become a defensive organization. I like that Iran's nuclear program is being delayed. That's not a defensive action. You don't seem to be proposing that the NSA become defensive, either. If Russia attacks us and we don't respond, that's not even defensive. That's dismantling.

"Cyberweapons" should be treated like bioweapons: there should be a framework of international law to decommission them, because they are simply too prone to spreading on their own and too dangerous to civilians. The US does not have a defensive anthrax capability (I believe), because it's too much of a liability.

What is a cyber weapon? Knowledge of a vulnerability? Exploit code? How do you propose regulating it? Much of this has been tried before and ended up hurting rather than helping.
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