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Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

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Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#381

Post by scorpioxy »

viraptor wrote: post #172
Theodores wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the employer's problem, there is also the matter of the competency of the line manager. Have you ever been asked to implement a feature with the first question being 'how long will it take?' for you to pluck a figure out of the air? In these scenarios a voice inside my head wants to ask 'well, you are the manager, aren't managers supposed to know these things?' There is an aspect of this going on here. The mana…

> In these scenarios a voice inside my head wants to ask 'well, you are the manager, aren't managers supposed to know these things?' That's a double edged sword. What would you think of a manager saying: you're on this task, it's going to take you 2 days? It's not better in my experience.

Well no it's not better but I once had a manager that would reply with "It doesn't take that long" to every estimate I made. Even though he had no idea how to do it himself or could even list the risks involved in such a request. Clearly that manager was not a good one.

Wouldn't it be easier if estimates are treated as such and everybody gets treated like a professional? Needless to say, I could only stomach 6 months in that work place.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#382

Post by godzillabrennus »

barrkel wrote: post #212
wfunction wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you've ever thought "I'm done for the day, but I'm going to hang out a little longer to leave at a more respectable time," then you're feeling (and doing) the same kind of thing. Not quite. First, this guy went out of his way to lie and insert extra bugs in his code to make it appear like manual labor. Second, this guy is doing it all the time, whereas normally people might only do this on occasion. You can argu…

I don't think there's an ethical consideration here; it's a transactional relationship, value delivered for wages paid. If the company could get the job done cheaper in a different manner, it would do it and dismiss the employee. Is that defensible? The employee is creating value for the company. They're holding up their end of the bargain. Companies exploit employees all the time; if something made by an employee ha…

I see it the same way. The employee is doing their job, albeit with software they wrote, but nonetheless it's getting done.

If I were this employee I'd spend my time at work contributing to open source software I cared about and that could help me with my career. Undoubtedly, as they already realized this, their job is going to be automated away from them so they need to keep themselves relevant.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#383

Post by etxm »

I worked in data entry at a large hospital in the late 90s. I automated my data entry of reports someone was printing from Excel and that I was entering it into another system.

My boss walked by one day and I was reading the Monstrous Compendium and she asked "what are you doing?" To which I responded, "uh reading the Monsterous Compendium"... then explained I automated my data entry by having the people upstairs because bring down floppies with spreadsheets on them instead of printing the reports "to save paper".

Curiously I didn't sign any paperwork when I started regarding intellectual property and I'd written the app on my computer at home... sooooo, I got a bonus and a promotion to the IT department!

They fired the rest of the data entry team :(

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#386

Post by Markoff »

it's simple - how long do you plan to stay with this company? 3 years? so ask 3 years salary for your program or better even more for additional support and updates

if they don't seem interested in this just keep doing what you are doing

it's same like comparing performance of employees, some smarter of us learn workarounds to make our work more efficient, is it mandatory for us to share our findings? what would be my motivation to share unless i will get significant bonus or share on company profit gained through higher productivity?

now if you just started and you are in your 20s i can see how you still have naive idealistic attitude and let yourself abuse and help company to fire people including you, if your are older you are less prone to this bullshit

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#387

Post by Vektorweg »

janxgeist wrote: post #371

So far (10 years) these rules have always worked out for me in the long run: 1) Your loyalty belongs to your company. Always do what is best for your company. 2) Always share your knowledge freely. 3) Never strategize in order to "secure your job". 4) Always pick the project or job where you will learn the most (grow the most as a person). I would guess 90% of people I have met ignore this and start strategizing at s…

No offense, but 1. sounds like slave capitalism 101.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#388

Post by hasenj »

wfunction wrote: post #207
s73ver wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they didn't attempt to exploit an information asymmetry when hiring them?

I don't know, but I was just explaining why they're annoyed, not whether they should be annoyed.

They thought they were playing him, and got about when they learned that in fact he was the one playing them.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#389

Post by blackflame7000 »

int_19h wrote: post #238
blackflame7000 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's paid based on task completion then no ethical violation. However, if he is paid based on hours worked then there is a grey area of whether he is actually working.

An alternative take: is paying based on hours work ethical? I know that it's widespread, but in this case, it seems that if your answer depends so significantly on a thing that is of such a little relevance to the actual processes at hand (i.e. what gets done and who benefits), I can't help but wonder whether this is because the premise is just wrong.

Oh no doubt the premise is screwed up. Hours worked doesnt factor in a workers effort level and motivation. I think companies will find out sooner or later that people are most innovative when they are free to be themselves.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#390

Post by janxgeist »

Vektorweg wrote: post #387
janxgeist wrote: post #371

So far (10 years) these rules have always worked out for me in the long run: 1) Your loyalty belongs to your company. Always do what is best for your company. 2) Always share your knowledge freely. 3) Never strategize in order to "secure your job". 4) Always pick the project or job where you will learn the most (grow the most as a person). I would guess 90% of people I have met ignore this and start strategizing at s…

No offense, but 1. sounds like slave capitalism 101.

It's not slavery: you are free to quit your job and work for another company, or start your own business. But if you DECIDE to work for a company and take the thousand(s) of dollars each month so that you can live a comfortable life, then you owe them your loyality.
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