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Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

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Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#361

Post by s73ver »

wfunction wrote: post #220
barrkel wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's an ethical consideration here; it's a transactional relationship, value delivered for wages paid. If the company could get the job done cheaper in a different manner, it would do it and dismiss the employee. Is that defensible? The employee is creating value for the company. They're holding up their end of the bargain. Companies exploit employees all the time; if something made by an employee ha…

The guy is actively and explicitly lying to get paid money that he otherwise likely would not , and yet you "don't think there's an ethical consideration here" ? What has this world devolved into?

So you feel that he is obligated to get himself fired, thus not being able to feed and support his family? What kind of ethics are those?

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#362

Post by getdatpapersong »

Using a throwaway because people are going to throw a hissy fit.

Dude, you have family and your _ONLY_ responsibility is towards them. Period. How is this even a question? Get paid, during your "working time" learn something extra and increase your earning potential. You're in a very unique advantageous position, seize the opportunity.

You're doing your job, you don't have to be some schmuck too.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#363

Post by dmichulke »

coldtea wrote: post #351
mmmpop wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, it's most certainly not! I wish someone could tell us how it is "elitist" to point out that some people are "smart" and some aren't. Not every person can be nor desires to be an engineer/surgeon/attorney and that's totally okay, the world needs big dumb jocks too.

> You're right, it's most certainly not! I wish someone could tell us how it is "elitist" to point out that some people are "smart" and some aren't. Well, for one it's a sign of a stupid person (who's also not paying attention) to believe that people working at lowly jobs aren't (or worse can't) be intelligent or follow intellectual pursuits.

Not sure here:

> Usually the people who take a crap job [...] don't spend that much time on intellectual pursuits to begin with.

He said that usually it is like that. Is that correct? It fits my experience but I don't know. But do you know it's wrong? I don't think so...

Now calling GP stupid, dropping the word "usually" and speculating he meant people working at lowly jobs can't be intelligent certainly is not a good deed in favor of your argument.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#364

Post by aidenn0 »

Qwertious wrote: post #301
Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting a floor for piecework pay isn't the same as making it illegal. There's still payment according to widgets produced in all other cases. I agree that it does change some of the incentives for piecework, and perhaps you could argue that it's effectively prohibited, but piecework per se is nevertheless perfectly legal.

The point is that if you're receiving a minimum of the minimum wage, then by definition you're getting a wage. If you're getting a wage, then you're being paid per hour. If you're being paid per hour, then you're not being paid piecework and OP owes his/her employer another 38 hours per week.

If your piecework is enough to make more than 40 hours at the minimum wage, then you don't owe the employer anything because the calculation for your pay is now decoupled from the hours that you work.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#365

Post by Natsu »

coldtea wrote: post #351
mmmpop wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, it's most certainly not! I wish someone could tell us how it is "elitist" to point out that some people are "smart" and some aren't. Not every person can be nor desires to be an engineer/surgeon/attorney and that's totally okay, the world needs big dumb jocks too.

> You're right, it's most certainly not! I wish someone could tell us how it is "elitist" to point out that some people are "smart" and some aren't. Well, for one it's a sign of a stupid person (who's also not paying attention) to believe that people working at lowly jobs aren't (or worse can't) be intelligent or follow intellectual pursuits.

I wouldn't put anything into absolutes. I know one guy who left the factory floor to become a pharmacist and another who left for IT.

But on average, the people I knew had been in some minor trouble and needed something to put food on the table. And a factory job paid just barely enough more than average that they could support their family even though the work really sucked.

And boy did it suck. I honestly worry about them right now, knowing that it's been near 120F. I know just how pathetic a swamp cooler is in that weather, especially if they're working 12h shifts and often having 6 day weeks.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#366

Post by Natsu »

codyb wrote: post #347
rkda wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that. It's that not everyone who desires to be an engineer/surgeon/attorney has the resources or opportunities to do so. Some people are barely surviving as it is. Intellectual pursuits are a luxury for them.

Are they? In a world with libraries and vast amounts of knowledge in the palms of our hands? My Pops never graduated college but he's one of my biggest inspirations because he goes out and builds things (well, stays in and builds thing I suppose). He started by building fiberglass boats and eventually ended up having a career as a graphic designer (a much less menial job than factory worker to be sure), but when he l…

A lot of people just don't get what's out there. You can basically take college classes for free these days, but it's up to figure things out.

Some people take that and become math prodigies or what have you. Whereas I know that I'm too often guilty of spending my time on entertainment.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#367

Post by [deleted] »

imh wrote: post #21

This question is a beautiful example of typical incentives workers feel and how screwed up they are. On HN people talk often enough about how if you have a worker who gets their job done in 30 hours instead of the company's usual 40-60 hours, you should give them 30-100% more responsibility, but much more rarely "and 30-100% more pay." Butt-in-the-chair hours are super important culturally and it's been that way for…

[deleted]

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#368

Post by mandude »

6nf wrote: post #270
undersuit wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how much does adding drama to my work routine help my compensation rate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xRqXYsksFg

Over promise, under deliver. Smart move. Certainly one that anyone in programming can relate to.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#369

Post by s73ver »

mch82 wrote: post #274

Just for fun let's flip this around: Is it ethical to keep doing the job manually if you know how to automate it and not tell your employer?

Are they paying for it to be automated? Further, is it ethical to automate yourself out of a job, and not be able to support your family?

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#370

Post by theparanoid »

nandemo wrote: post #266

If you believe in the Gervais Principle, https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... then OP is a "loser", and most answers divide into "losers" ("coming clean will be worse, so just keep doing the bare minimum") or "clueless" ("it is unethical to mislead your corporate masters"). I'd like to see what's the "sociopath" answer.

Show incompetence in the testers and get them fired.
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